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I love that a multi-billion-dollar corporation like RedHat/IBM can ship an operating system with a broken screen reader in 2024 (it’s not just them, it’s true for basically every major Linux distribution today) and, when you point it out, the response is “it’s no one’s fault… it’s all free labour… it’s FOSS, man”. And then: oh, and this charity is paying for one person to work on accessibility support to be implemented now… Anyone else see how fucked up that is?

#accessibility #foss #linux

Jonathan Lamothe reshared this.

in reply to Aral Balkan

Why should it take @sovtechfund to fund accessibility work on the Linux distribution of a multi-billion-dollar corporation like IBM? Why the fuck isn’t IBM paying for it?

#accessibility #linux #foss #corporations #BigTech

This entry was edited (3 months ago)
in reply to Aral Balkan

@sovtechfund because corporations don't deliver Linux as a desktop OS as a product / don't provide it to consumers.

Corporations use Linux mostly for servers, or for their internal tools loaded with specific software to do a specific task.

Often, the tasks, for which they use Linux loaded gadgets, require people to not be visually impaired due to nature of work itself and tools just enhance it, and therefore accessibility is irrelevant in their context of use.

in reply to Miroslav Kravec

@Miroslav Kravec

Often, the tasks, for which they use Linux loaded gadgets, require people to not be visually impaired due to nature of work itself

Can you provide an example?

in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

@me production - manual labour tools, automatized machines and other controller devices with embedded Linux and touch panel.

For office work, I never saw a corporation to use Linux. Only Windows. They often even forbid Linux. In my experience.

To be fair, can you provide opposite example?

in reply to Miroslav Kravec

@Miroslav Kravec As a counter example: Many things have touch panels not because they inherently require them, but because they're cheaper than developing a solution with custom physical controls (in much the same way that elevators cost more than stairs for example). As a side note: before touchscreens became widespread, they'd have had to do this. Yes, accessibility costs more, but it's not like they don't have the resources. In a lot of cases, they've chosen not to invest in accessibility, because they don't have an economic incentive to do so (yay capitalism!)
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

@me elevator isn't counter-example.

It's a different topic, where I agree with you. It's not on-topic example, because use of elevator isn't mutually exclusive with being visually impaired.

It's the opposite, elevators should help visually impaired people to get up or down more safely.

Specific example, documents archivation process requires paying visual attention to what is being scanned, and then appropriately assigning categories, tags, etc,... Visually impaired people can't do that.

in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

@me similar accessibility issue is with car media and climate control systems.

Those are used even by not-visually-impaired people.

Missing physicals knobs make operation dangerous.

in reply to Miroslav Kravec

Edit: It appears I have somehow misread the post this was in reply to, and it is thus rather non-sequitor.

@Miroslav Kravec You think it's only cars that are replacing things with touchscreens? Also, blind people can't be passengers? I'm finding it very difficult to believe that you're debating in good faith here.

BTW, touchscreens in cars aren't even a good idea for sighted people. It forces them to take their eyes off the road unnecessarily, but that's yet a whole other can of worms.

in reply to Aral Balkan

No idea if you saw this passibly-related thread about piping output to NVDA in a WINE setup: dragonscave.space/@meatbag/112…
in reply to Aral Balkan

> And then: oh, and this charity is
> paying for one person to work
>on accessibility support to be
>implemented now

Assuming it doesn’t fall through…

“We’re currently facing a major issue from the GNOME Foundation side. We hope it will be resolved before it impacts the coordination of the STF project, but if not, the future of parts of the project is uncertain.” thisweek.gnome.org/posts/2024/…

in reply to Aral Balkan

So glad I am sitting in a developers summit at bsdcan.org right at this moment... Yes I am using a FreeBSD laptop.
in reply to Aral Balkan

this is where regulatory bodies can step in. See the ADA for the US, it can be expanded to include accessibility to technological services. Companies will not change on their own.
in reply to Aral Balkan

And don’t forget the they guilt trip and badger me for using windows!👩‍🦯
in reply to Aral Balkan

This is a cynical take, but the sad thing is that this is the way a lot of non-corpo FOSS devs react as well. It just seems way more egregious when a big corpo flush with cash does it.

One of the biggest negative attitudes I encounter in the FOSS community is the perception that "free" has become short for "free labor" in the minds of many people, and no longer carries the responsibility on the part of the dev to consider the users' needs for complete software because "they can just fix it themselves". It's become endemic to the community and IBM is just playing along because it's to their advantage to do so.

If non-corpo devs exhibit this lack of responsibility, why would we expect a multi-billion-dollar corpo to bother?

The fact that IBM is doing it (and the fact that nobody else up until now has even tried to address the problem by "fixing it themselves") just throws a gigantic spotlight on the root attitude problem. There are a lot of programs claiming to be FOSS that really should just be OSS.

in reply to Aral Balkan

Me, after years of complaining about proprietary OSs and software: that's it, I'm switching to Linux!

*switches to Ubuntu*

Me, reading about the various issues with different Linux distros: well this fucking sucks

in reply to Aral Balkan

especially considering that IBM got so burned during the 96 Olympics that it started paying a lot of attention to accessibility... but only for a time, I guess.
in reply to Aral Balkan

I sympathize but don't understand what's the issue you're facing. Just tried using GNOME's screen reader on Fedora (on Wayland) and it's working pretty much perfectly, with the only exception being Firefox, which doesn't seem to have anything to do with Red Hat, weirdly enough.
in reply to Aral Balkan

Do you mean keyboard control as in managing to navigate the UI with a keyboard or do you mean controlling the TTS through it? At least with the GTK apps I tested the keyboard navigation worked really well, but since it's something I don't NEED I'm not aware of what exactly is broken with it, but I'll be glad to at least look into what can be done about it :frogCozy:
in reply to Daimar Stein :tux: :comunista:

@joojmachine I mean you can’t control the screen reader. In other words, the major Linux distributions do not have a functional screen reader at the moment and haven’t had one since they started shipping Wayland by default.

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