Dear @Gargron,
A fediverse server called Threads is violating mastodon.social’s second server rule:
“2. No racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia…
Transphobic behavior such as intentional misgendering and deadnaming is strictly prohibited.”
Can you please defederate from this server to protect the trans people on mastodon.social?
Thank you.
PS. It’s run by these guys: https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/26/facebook-secret-project-snooped-snapchat-user-traffic/
#mastodonSocial #fediblock #threads #meta #mastodon #transphobia
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djw
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Piling on here, I could not agree more. The Fediverse is a welcoming space that takes people as they are, with essentially the singular exception of hateful people.
I'm sure I've spoken poorly more than once, and I'll never truly be the person that I aspire to be. But I come from a place of acceptance, love, and equality and it seems reasonable to me to expect the same in return.
Witix :verified_gay:
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Witix :verified_gay: • •@Witix :verified_gay: @Aral Balkan @Eugen Rochko Which was exactly Gab's argument...
Yay double standards!
like this
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Witix :verified_gay:
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Witix :verified_gay: • •Dan Morris
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •This is a tough one, because a mastodon server has 2 choices: block users and block servers. Generally, you'd block a server if its own managers are unable to moderate their own users (thereby making it in the interest of the server managers to maintain some moderation). However, I think we can all agree that Threads is going to be a hot-mess that is never going to be seriously moderated.
So, the question is, "how" can this be done without completely cutting them off? Or, perhaps it's best NOT to accommodate them and just shut them off?
I have lots of family on Facebook, but my account has been inactive for 5yrs now. I'd like to avoid ever going there and just have them on here -somehow. But, I'd rather not hear from them and avoid hearing a bunch of nazi ranting and disinformation every day.
If there's a way to do it, it would be cool. If not.... meh. block them.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Dan Morris • •like this
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fromjason.xyz 🖤
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •of all the pro-meta blog posts in the past six months, I have never read anything to the tune of "Threads is bound by Mastodon's terms of service like any other instance."
Hundreds of thousands of published words and none formed a sentence close to that. Not even in the form of a question. Odd.
WobblyElmer
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Pull the pin on #threads.
Michael Bishop ☕
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Twitter_expat ✅(Fedi Resident)
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Alex
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •its a tough one..
For me personally the primary reason to defederate threads is history - for decades large corpos have followed agressive assimilation principle. There are barely any exceptions and I cant come up with any, its highly likely threads will be such a case again.
On the other hand, federating with threads gives access to millions of new users that can be positively influenced, threads brings with it potential to take fedi out of fringe and into mainstream.
Aral Balkan
Unknown parent • • •Chris Who
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •hansup
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •People on meta will NEVER care 1 second about the fediverse. If you want to connect with your family on meta, join meta. The whole point of the fediverse was being an alternative, not a replacement.
Mister Moo 🐮
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Mister Moo 🐮 • • •Mister Moo 🐮
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •NickWalsh
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to NickWalsh • • •@NickWalsh Hey Nick,
Fuck off.
Sincerely,
Me
monorail times
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •william.maggos
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to william.maggos • • •If the two links I provided in the original post do not meet your bar for defederation then there’s something wrong with your bar. It also tells me your instance is not a safe space for vulnerable groups. And if your instance happens to be the flagship one and you’re fine with this, it tells me you’re legitimising this behaviour on the greater network.
#fediblockmeta #fediblock #meta
darth_akeda
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to darth_akeda • • •@darth_akeda Clearly, you’re making assumptions about people you don’t know. But I am white-passing and you probably assume I’m also American so I guess that’s why. (Hint: I’m from the part of the world that Americans bomb.)
Anyway, so, needless to say, no, of course that’s not what I mean but I also don’t appreciate being attacked for what you assume me to be.
Tucker Carlson's Nuts
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •mathew
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Not only anti-trans. Chaya Raichik ("Libs of TikTok") is on Threads.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libs_of_TikTok
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/libs-tiktok-x-chaya-raichik-bomb-threat-twitter-of-libsoftiktok-rcna102784
After Libs of TikTok posted, at least 21 bomb threats followed
David Ingram (NBC News)eatyourglory
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to eatyourglory • • •Fabio Manganiello
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •I’m not sure if I agree completely with this statement.
Defederating Gab, poa.st, cum.salon or RapeMeat was really a no-brainer.
Those were instances created by trolls/fascists/homophobic/misogynist admins, and specifically dedicated to people who share the same ideas and the same ways of treating others.
There’s literally no doubt of the ideology of a person who joins one of those instances: if you join Gab or poa.st, then it’s quite easy to identify your ideas as well.
Can we say the same about Threads? Can we say that everybody there is a transphobic, or a Nazi, or a troll? Can we say that the admins explicitly embrace and actively promote these ideologies?
When you have an instance with millions of accounts, you’re always statistically likely to get jerks. The questions that admins have to ask before defederating are:
I have the impression that for Threads the response to these questions is negative, at least for now.
Of course, I’m monitoring the situation, and I’m ready to pull the drawbridge at the first signs that Threads has a negative net added value for the Fediverse.
But that doesn’t seem the case for now IMHO (I actually see a lot of nice/decent people on Threads that are genuinely curious about the Fediverse), and I’m not sure if I would handpick a few cases of moderation failures to make an argument in favour of defederation (rather than individual blocks/bans/mutes).
Aral Balkan
in reply to Fabio Manganiello • • •Have you actually clicked the links in the post and read the articles?
(Because the issue here is that Facebook/Meta is a bad actor, that Facebook/Meta are not moderating transphobia, etc. And that Facebook/Meta should not be federated with in the same way that any other fediverse instance that does what they do would be. If they’re not being defederated then it’s for one reason alone: their size and what some people feel they can gain from that audience.)
Fabio Manganiello
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •I’m very well aware of Meta’s challenges with content moderation. And I definitely would like them to be called more accountable for this.
I’m just challenging the idea that full defederation of a platform with millions of people is the right way to respond to these failures, or if more granular measures (blocks/mutes) can be implemented.
Again, if the tree was rotten at its very roots (Gab, poa.st etc.), there would be no doubt about it.
If the head of the platform was actively engaging and promoting hateful ideologies (like Musk), there wouldn’t be any doubt either.
But for now I don’t see any such strong signals from Thread.
Aral Balkan
in reply to Fabio Manganiello • • •Asta [AMP]
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Fabio Manganiello
in reply to Asta [AMP] • • •far from it, I want him called accountable for his unethical business practices, for his failures at moderation and for being a sociopath.
It’s just that I don’t think that full defederation of a platform with millions of users, and giving up our chance of finally making the Fediverse more mainstream and stopping using other platforms to communicate with our friends and relatives, is the best solution.
Asta [AMP]
in reply to Fabio Manganiello • • •Vinnie (any)
in reply to Fabio Manganiello • • •no server should have millions of followers. It goes against everything that makes the fediverse...well...diverse. The fact that servers can be held accountable is what drives the need for moderation, it's a tool in the arsenal of any decent admin. Threads takes a huge shit on all admins because they are monolithic.
Threads takes away tools for moderation from all servers, so that's why anyone with any sense should defederate now.
C++ Guy
in reply to Fabio Manganiello • • •@fabio @eatyourglory
#Meta is like a tumour: it cares only about its own survival and growth, regardless of the effects on the society on which it feeds. It doesn't matter if people are slaughtered brutally, democracy gets perverted or the UK and the EU are weakened, as long as it helps Meta show more adverts.
The decision we face is not whether to defederate millions of people who would otherwise set up Fedi accounts: it's whether to defederate millions of people who want to access Fedi via Meta, with all the toxicity and dirty tricks that entails. We have no reason to believe that Meta will behave honourably and openly towards us, because we already know how they behave towards everyone else. Giving them the benefit of the doubt means waiting for them to miraculously change their character because we think we're a special case, and then crying into our milkshakes when we realise it's too late and we're drowning in Meta's garbage.
Don't think they care about Fedi: they really don't. To them, Fedi is something that Meta can use either to make money or avoid fines, and if Fedi is ruined in the process, so be it.
Our response should be to defederate them and to publicly explain why, in a well written, authoritative piece that anyone can see without needing a Fedi account. #Threads users who want access to Fedi can set up Fedi accounts: either on civilised instances, where we'll welcome them, or on fash instances, where the rest of us don't have to think about them.
Rik D'huyvetters
in reply to C++ Guy • • •C++ Guy
in reply to Rik D'huyvetters • • •@Rik_Dhuyvetters @fabio @eatyourglory
It's not a mistake. They're keeping you engaged by keeping you enraged. And it's not good for you:
https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/study-social-media-use-linked-to-decline-mental-health
(The headline refers to social media in general, but the article is specifically about #Facebook.)
Study: Social media use linked to decline in mental health | MIT Sloan
MIT SloanFabio Manganiello
in reply to C++ Guy • • •I’m very well aware of all of this. But there’s a plot twist when you actually access Threads from the Fediverse.
Mastodon or Pleroma don’t have algorithmically curated timelines. They simply lack Meta’s engagement machinery.
It means that I can select the accounts I want to follow on Threads, and those activities (and only those activities) will appear on my timeline, in chronological order like everything else.
No “accounts to follow”. No “you may be also be interested in this content”. No algorithmic tricks to shuffle what gets shown in front of you eyes in order to increase your engagement.
C++ Guy
in reply to Fabio Manganiello • • •@fabio @Rik_Dhuyvetters @eatyourglory
Understood. But I feel that we who understand the issues have a moral duty not to help #Meta: not by feeding it information about ourselves, and not by doing anything it can use to increase its users' engagement with its platform.
If Meta's users can access Fedi from where they already are, they have less incentive to step outside and find an experience free of advertising, tracking and Meta's unhealthy mind games.
Fabio Manganiello
in reply to C++ Guy • • •we’re already feeding information about ourselves to Meta, unless our profiles are private and authorized fetch is enabled on the instance (and webfinger is disabled). A quick test is to search for our profile handle on a search engine. If our profiles are already publicly accessible, the odds are that some crawler or bot instance is already scooping them out.
About giving people incentives to migrate to the Fedi: I’ve personally given up. It won’t happen. Just like I’ve been waiting for two decades for people to move to Linux. If even relatively tech savvy people like my wife or my colleagues after all this time are still stuck using MacOS or Meta’s products, I think that the percentage of the population that will do such a big jump (either to a new OS or to a new social media), and especially won’t churn too soon, will always be below the single digit percentage. Everybody hates Meta, everybody knows how many awful things they’ve done, yet nobody is moving from their products because that’s where everybody else is. Until we provide something that can compete with “(almost) everybody’s content is here”, we won’t go far. Sometimes if Mohammed won’t move to the mountain, we’ve gotta move the mountain to Mohammed.
C++ Guy
in reply to Fabio Manganiello • • •@fabio @Rik_Dhuyvetters @eatyourglory
We can't wait for people to move to Linux: we have to help them. I've managed to move two family members and one friend to #Linux. I've got maybe a dozen people regularly using #Signal because I refused to use #WhatsApp and wasn't afraid to explain why. I've migrated at least three people from #Chrome to #Firefox.
IMHO, allowing Fedi to become a small curiosity on the outskirts of #Threads would be our death knell. We mustn't underestimate how evil #Meta is. They don't tolerate competition, they don't play fair, and they don't care how much damage they do as long as it makes money or entrenches their hegemony.
Everyone here knows the three E's: embrace, extend, extinguish. Are you ready to be embraced?
🅐s ⓣhe 🅆orld 🆃urns
in reply to C++ Guy • • •@C++ Guy @Rik D'huyvetters @eatyourglory @Fabio Manganiello @Aral Balkan
microsoft using same #strategy with WSL. keeping people from using a real full #GNU/Linux distro and keeping them inside #windows ecosystem.
threads is like #microsoft #WSL. keeping those on fence from actually leaving fuccen #spyware fuccen dickhead #facebook.
#Linux #Signal #whatsapp #chrome #Firefox #threads #meta
Saint Barners
in reply to C++ Guy • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Saint Barners • • •Dallas (Join Something IRL)
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •@fabio @eatyourglory
There should be a middle ground for defederation. Like a "Read Only" option where users of a particular server can read and share the posts from another, but users on the other server can't read it reply to yours.
Like, maybe I want to read Taylor Swift's posts on threads but dont want random people on threads reading my posts.
Demon Queen Lucretia
in reply to eatyourglory • • •Tripop
in reply to eatyourglory • • •because trans people are babies, they cannot know how to defend themself, and like... use mastodon to block servers and users, so big admin guy have to think for them.
I guess.
Aral Balkan
in reply to Tripop • • •@tripop Go away.
@eatyourglory
FediThing 🏳️🌈
in reply to eatyourglory • • •@eatyourglory
By preventing anti-trans bigotry from spreading to other servers.
It is a long-standing principle on the Fediverse that if an instance refuses to moderate hate content, the instance is defederated.
Meta is refusing to moderate hate content so it should be defederated.
Tushar Chauhan
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •tbones
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Has any threads account commented a #fediverse post so far? I haven't seen a single one but I'm open for an example.
In the other direction just one comment from an Italian mastodon server to a threads post that hasn't been displayed so far in threads.
McWabbit🐰 has moved
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •This is why there is federation. If this server is still federated to Threads in, let's say 6 months, I'll browse below list and pick another server.
On the other hand, I hope all the larger servers reconsider and block #Threads outright.
Because if they don't, it will play right in the hands of #Meta and all the #TechBros' social media platforms to destroy smaller independent alternatives. Just like e.g. #Amazon and #Uber are doing it in their markets.
https://fedipact.veganism.social/?v2
#Fedipact - The instances blocking Zuckerberg's Threads.net
fedipact.veganism.socialIgnacio 🇪🇸🇺🇦:peertube:
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Interesting that nobody puts on the table the third server rule:
"3. No incitement of violence or promotion of violent ideologies...
Support for violent groups or events is prohibited."
While some usual suspects, like masto.nobigtech.es blatantly support Ukrainian genocide by Ruzzia and call nazis to Ukrainian people, and nobody asks for defederation. Why that would be?
Aral Balkan
in reply to Ignacio 🇪🇸🇺🇦:peertube: • • •Bear
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •A lot of the people responding to your toot seemed to have skipped over the articles you linked to, and your point.
Meta is not operating openly and they are not moderating effectively.
😐
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Erik Jonker
in reply to Bear • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Erik Jonker • • •Scotsbear
in reply to Erik Jonker • • •Oh, I should move acc because people running things want to play nice with Satan's data collection company, and won't take the moderation, user-protection steps from the policies they pride themselves on having us read before we sign up?
And having done it already more than once I'll point out that full data portability isn't available in the Fediverse currently. You lose something every time you move, most often Followers.
Just because we can doesn't mean we should have to.
Aral Balkan
in reply to Scotsbear • • •Krzysztof Sakrejda
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Krzysztof Sakrejda • • •@wronglang Meta’s a bit busy with a few other things at the moment but I’m sure they’ll get around to it.
https://techcrunch.com/2024/03/26/facebook-secret-project-snooped-snapchat-user-traffic/
TechCrunch is part of the Yahoo family of brands
techcrunch.comKrzysztof Sakrejda
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Krzysztof Sakrejda • • •Martina Neumayer
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •As we saw on many examples in the past, Zuckerberg's company doesn't respect any laws, rules, rights and so on, secretly stealing and then selling lots of data/content from the unaware people behind their backs.
This is absolutely unacceptable and also illegal, criminal behavior!
madhadron
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to madhadron • • •Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Aral Balkan • •@Aral Balkan @madhadron @Eugen Rochko Not only did they choose to federate, but they actively helped Meta to do it.
Edit: typo
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Vinnie (any)
Unknown parent • • •David
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •@rober see why I was against allow Meta to federate? 😔
As always they go first after trans people, then after the rest.
"If you dont act now because you weren't a trans person. Don't cry when you're attacked."
Fabio Manganiello
Unknown parent • • •I see that you aren’t an instance admin, so I assume that you have blocked the visibility of any content generated by the domain - not defederated for all the users on your instance.
If that’s the case, that’s perfectly fine. You are free to decide what content you want to see, and who is supposed to see your content.
What I criticize is the assumption that admins should take such decisions on behalf of all the users on their instance, and criticize other admins who haven’t taken the same decision.
Serhiy Guryev
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Fabio Manganiello
Unknown parent • • •You seem to have a public profile. Do you know that everything you post is already public - and probably it’s already been used to train AI models, given how cheap it is to scrape the Fediverse?
Threads doesn’t even need to openly federate and engineer their own solution. It just needs a tiny instance that flies under the radar, connects to a relay and follows a couple of accounts through bots.
And even assuming that we as admins can spot all those instances and block them as they pop up, they can still whip up their own crawlers that scrape all public content on the Fediverse. Or just scrape search results.
There’s a widely common misconseption that having a Fediverse profile is more privacy-friendly than having a profile on one of those platforms. The truth is that having a public profile on a platform that leverages open protocols and open APIs isn’t compatible with the idea of privacy. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
counterinduration
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to counterinduration • •@counterinduration There are three reasons I still federate. If any one of them stops being a thing, I'll defederate (I've considered it).
Meta fails at point number two, and because of that, I haven't given them the chance to fail point number three.
Edit: typo
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