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Something that hasn't been made clear: Firefox will have an option to completely disable all AI features.

We've been calling it the AI kill switch internally. I'm sure it'll ship with a less murderous name, but that's how seriously and absolutely we're taking this.

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Firefox for Web Developers
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Firefox for Web Developers
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All AI features will also be opt-in. I think there are some grey areas in what 'opt-in' means to different people (e.g. is a new toolbar button opt-in?), but the kill switch will absolutely remove all that stuff, and never show it in future. That's unambiguous.

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aburka 🫣
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aburka 🫣
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I mean this is just a lie. You rolled out shit like the AI link previews without asking.
in reply to aburka 🫣

aburka 🫣
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aburka 🫣
• •
"opt-in" means if I want something I go looking for it and install it. Pop-ups appearing every 5 seconds to push something on me and making me hunt for the "fuck no go away" button is not opt-in.
in reply to Firefox for Web Developers

Firefox for Web Developers
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Firefox for Web Developers
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I'm not asking for faith in our direction - the thing I love about the Firefox community is how open, honest, and technical it is.

But I do ask that you don't have the opposite of faith. Like, try not to be determined that we're going to do the wrong thing here.

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in reply to Firefox for Web Developers

Firefox for Web Developers
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Firefox for Web Developers
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I hope we can (re)gain your trust here.

I don't personally work on this stuff, but I'll try hard to answer any questions you have.

And other than that, I'll get back in my lane, and stick to web platform stuff.

- Jake (@jaffathecake)

@Jake Archibald
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Firefox for Web Developers
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Firefox for Web Developers
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Just be glad this thread wasn't a long-ass video. It almost was.
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Christophe Henry
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Christophe Henry
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Yeah I think most people mainly deplore the hype and the resources spent on technological trends whose benefits are not always obvious. Before that, Mozilla advertised about FirefoxOS, before killing it to focus on IoT, before moving on to blockchain, then crypto, then NFT's and now IA. In more that 10 years, none of this projects produced anything useful for the users.

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Scott Williams 🐧
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Scott Williams 🐧
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@christophehenry I had a FxOS phone and it was really good. I was gutted when they abruptly killed that project.
@Christophe Henry
in reply to Christophe Henry

Christophe Henry
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Christophe Henry
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Right now, Mozilla would probably be the first company to be diagnosed with ADHD. It really can't seem to focus and do something productive. The question was never "should Firefox have IA?". The question is "to do what?". All you've been doing is communicating that IA is coming. Not announcing a new feature. TBH, it's worrying. IA should be an implementation detail, not the central point.
This entry was edited (14 hours ago)
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Christophe Henry
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Christophe Henry
• •

It's like Mozilla is a car company and it's advertising a new car with leather in it. Ok, cool but what is it? A berline, a pickup, a SUV? Will I recharge with electricity or fuel? And Mozilla's answer is: "it has leather in it!"

It's… not great.

This entry was edited (14 hours ago)
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Nicolas Silva
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Nicolas Silva
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@christophehenry look, you have a point about communication. It's hard and Mozilla isn't top notch at it, to be polite. But also, Mozilla never worked on IOT, nor blockchain nor crypto stuff. There were vague talks of transitioning some of the Firefox OS resources into IOT exploration for a very brief time, which didn't end up happening so I'll give you that one. But where the hell hell is the rest coming from?
@Christophe Henry
in reply to Nicolas Silva

Christophe Henry
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Christophe Henry
• •
@nical I can't find the sources although I remember clearly something about it but they definitively developped a Metaverse thing and IoT. This doesn't really change my argument.
@Nicolas Silva
in reply to Christophe Henry

catch
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catch
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@christophehenry @nical they very publicly had to walk back accepting crypto donations in 2022. It's not quite putting crypto miner in Firefox or linking it to a crypto exchange but still.

techcrunch.com/2022/01/06/mozi…


Firefox maker Mozilla pauses crypto donations amid backlash

The Mozilla Foundation, which oversees Firefox development, is pausing the ability to accept donations in cryptocurrencies following a backlash.
Manish Singh (TechCrunch)
@Nicolas Silva @Christophe Henry
in reply to Firefox for Web Developers

rachael laura yay ~
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rachael laura yay ~
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a killswitch isnt enough and never will be. for the longest time, this was the browser with integrity and a clear mission. even the slightest bit of AI in the browser, even opt in, is a betrayal of that mission. AI is the kind of thing that should be treated as malware and firefox is infected.
in reply to rachael laura yay ~

Seachaint
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Seachaint
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@rachaelspooky Also, that whole bit where the new CEO kited blocking adblocks? Lost me forever. Critical moral failure. You try to fuck with my overton window I throw you out it.

If we want a real humane browser it needs to be 1) Nonprofit, actually this time, no Google buyouts and 2) Flat out reject inhumane tech (DRM, AI, whatever the next shitty thing is), 3) stop hand-wringing about "market share". It's not a market. It's a medium for humans.

@rachael laura yay ~
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Tom Walker
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Tom Walker
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@jaffathecake The problem really is that you can say this to us (I'm sure with good intent), but the executive-level approach seems to be "AI all the things", talk about AI all day long, etc. Having one big switch would be good, the key is that it keeps working and doesn't switch itself back on...
@Jake Archibald
in reply to Tom Walker

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
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@tomw @jaffathecake Or they could copy Google and other AI-obsessed big tech by taking working features, integrating AI, and then having the AI "kill switch" disable the feature entirely instead of using the AI free version.

(Google has done this to spell checking in GMail and translation in general.)

It's the stage of enshitification where investors are prioritized over users.

@Tom Walker @Jake Archibald
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Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson
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Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson
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@jaffathecake it’s hard to believe the “kill switch” will actually do what it says. We’ve been told time and time again “AI” will be “opt-in” just to have the features repeatedly turned back on after users have disabled them.

Why is this *any* different?

@Jake Archibald
in reply to Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson

Firefox for Web Developers
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Firefox for Web Developers
• •
@josh @jaffathecake which features have you personally experienced this with in Firefox?
@Jake Archibald @Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson
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Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson
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Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson
• •

@jaffathecake the “AI” chat flag resets every now and then. browser.ml.enable as well. I don’t have them all memorized, but I’ve had to disable them more than once (yes, same browser profile).

I run Dev Edition. Maybe it’s a bug 🤷‍♂️ but against the backdrop of doubling down on things Mozilla’s users explicitly reject, it sure is a strange coincidence.

@Jake Archibald
in reply to Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson

Firefox for Web Developers
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Firefox for Web Developers
• •
@josh everyone has a different definition of opt-in, which I why I was up-front about that. Whereas the kill-switch is unambiguous.
@Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson
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Maddie
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Maddie
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I read the thread and see where the confusion is coming from, this is for sure a PR minefield. That said, it seems clear that there's a significant opt *out* aspect of the consent model here that ought to be acknowledged...

I appreciate you interfacing with users, which can be particularly stressful digitally, especially with the new CEO. Working with the users, rather than for users, is the key.

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Maddie
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Maddie
• •

I've experienced this with a growing list of config options, the earliest being browser.ml.enable. If I were to guess, it may be getting re-enabled every update, I'm not sure.

You can imagine the frustration multiplies with other pain points. Like, I often right click a page to select "View Page Source". It was a bit frustrating when the split second before I can click it, "✨ Summarize with AI" loaded into the context menu and I accidentally clicked that.

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David Gerard
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David Gerard
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@josh @jaffathecake I have had browser.ml.* settings I disabled by hand in about:config re-enable repeatedly with new versions. I posted about it on bsky and a pile of other people chimed in saying the same had happened to them too.

Do not try to pretend you don't know this was happening.

@Jake Archibald @Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson
in reply to the elder sea

David Gerard
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David Gerard
• •
@eldersea @josh @jaffathecake if Mozilla is gonna send people who say "hiii~ uwu smol bean dev here!!" and they just fuckin lie at us like this ... well actually, they're probably sending their best remaining
@Jake Archibald @Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson @the elder sea
This entry was edited (5 hours ago)
in reply to David Gerard

ToddZ Ⓥ
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ToddZ Ⓥ
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@davidgerard @eldersea @josh @jaffathecake

I don't know what everybody's upset about. All AI features are opt-in only. You have to deliberately opt-in by failing to repeatedly disable several cryptic default settings hidden behind an obscure configuration URL.

@Jake Archibald @David Gerard @Josh “Yoshi” Vickerson @the elder sea
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Mother Bones
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Mother Bones
• •

It's *inherently* the wrong thing, though.

I also don't want to buy eyeglasses that include eyeball-poking blades "but with a kill switch to retract them in case you don't like those." I just want eyeglasses with no eyeball-poking blades to begin with.

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Kev Quirk
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Kev Quirk
• •

I think your CEO publicly stating that Firefox "will evolve into a modern AI browser" is what's got people on edge.

Further, this is just another step in a raft of poor decisions by Mozilla, which has me (after 20+ years of happy use) looking for an alternative.

in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

Kev Quirk
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Kev Quirk
• •

@me no. That's a direct quote from the post.

blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/le…

Mozilla’s next chapter: Building the world’s most trusted software company

Today, Anthony Enzor-DeMeo step into the role of CEO of Mozilla Corporation, focusing on becoming the trusted software company.
Rebecca Smith (The Mozilla Blog)
@Jonathan Lamothe

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