mastodon - Link to source

With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.

Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?

reshared this

in reply to Aurochs

mastodon - Link to source

myrmepropagandist

@aurochs

I think the way we make DIY discovery eg build your own algorithm so mandatory makes it hard for the fedi to fulfill the role of social media in many people's lives: a way to relax ... social media functions a lot like how people have watched TV for decades. "just to see what's on"

I think there is nothing wrong with algorithms as long as they are transparent, and created by users.

@Aurochs
in reply to myrmepropagandist

mastodon - Link to source

myrmepropagandist

@aurochs

What if we had a kind of mini-app where users could create their own algorithms and then share combine and trade them?

I might design a mix of hashtags, users, and hand picked posts and call it "Ant News" someone else might pick a group of users and hash tags and create "Italian Football Bloopers"

Then we could share and rate these feeds and new users could just click on the popular ones?

@Aurochs
in reply to myrmepropagandist

misskey - Link to source

bovaz

I like that. I think people should then also be able to opt-in to a "thing" where they also sporadically get posts that aren't in any of their chosen feeds, but are "related", for example by virtue of being in the feeds of the some of the people they follow, to give the sense of serendipitous discovery of new stuff. Maybe, a somehow tunable "serendipity factor" that widens the concept "related".
I think a tab like tab would usually be more useful/interesting than the local/global timelines.
in reply to myrmepropagandist

mastodon - Link to source

myrmepropagandist

@bovaz @aurochs

Curating content is real work. Tiktok didn't talk about it a lot but they put a great deal of effort into making the first experience users had with the app fun.

Showing them things they'd never seen before that were funny, or exciting ... using the spy data to tailor it to the particular user. Using the way the user scrolled to improve that experience.

@Aurochs @bovaz
in reply to myrmepropagandist

mastodon - Link to source

myrmepropagandist

@bovaz @aurochs

I think most people here find that kind of tracking and filtering a little creepy? But, it was also very convenient.

Over here we are like "follow two-dozen hash tags, and 300 people and then MAYBE your feed will be kind of interesting." Alternately? Here is the fire hose of your server's feed with 200 posts from the same person. Or the global feed which is just chaos.

Can we respect the art and craft of curating content? Can we make it a human thing?

@Aurochs @bovaz
in reply to myrmepropagandist

mastodon - Link to source

Phosphenes

@futurebird @bovaz @aurochs

Yep I'd like my own private bird dog algorithm to sniff out feeds that match my tastes. It could even run on my own desktop computer and not bother anyone else. Trading them like baseball cards does sound fun.

Regarding OP question about why Mastodon is still small:

1. Obvious network effects. Nobody's there so nobody's there. This will slowly improve. (But the people who *are* here are really interesting!)

2. Not a business so no marketing.

@Aurochs @myrmepropagandist @bovaz
This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)
in reply to Phosphenes

mastodon - Link to source

myrmepropagandist

@Phosphenes @bovaz @aurochs

The fedi is slowly becoming a NORC (naturally occurring retirement community)

Only facebook has an older userbase.

And being more old than young that isn't a personal problem. But I wish there was more interest in making it a place younger people would care about. And that would mean listening to them.

@Aurochs @bovaz @Phosphenes

reshared this

in reply to myrmepropagandist

mastodon - Link to source

Rachel E. S. Lösche

@futurebird @Phosphenes @bovaz @aurochs If Loops and Pixelfed can manage to look and feel enough like Instagram while successfully being FOSS through and through it'll be a big deal. I'm really hoping we can all throw in together on that working but I know the politics of FOSS projects can be just as confusing and counterproductive as those in corporateland.
@Aurochs @myrmepropagandist @bovaz @Phosphenes
in reply to hiphopheaven

mastodon - Link to source

Rachel E. S. Lösche

@hiphopheaven @futurebird @Phosphenes @bovaz @aurochs They do! I left Tik Tok and Instagram a few years ago after I joined the Fediverse, and I was excited to find Loops and Pixelfed.

Naturally it sucks not having a lot of people you know "IRL" on those, since that was a major reason to use Instagram - to keep up with lots of friends through their posts and short video updates.

It seemed that was the only issue - getting more people to join the platform. But that is no easy task...

@Aurochs @myrmepropagandist @bovaz @Phosphenes @hiphopheaven
in reply to hiphopheaven

mastodon - Link to source

Rachel E. S. Lösche

@hiphopheaven The important thing about Instagram for me was the people and being able to keep up with them through that interface.

There are lots of aspects to these things. Just personally liked being able to keep up with people I knew through that. I'd loe to have a FOSS replacement for that, so I want Pixelfed and Loops to work well so I can suggest friends install them.

@hiphopheaven
in reply to myrmepropagandist

mastodon - Link to source

myrmepropagandist

@aurochs

A feed creation tool could have options such as:

* Include/exclude these hash tags
* Include/exclude these users... but only if -- condition is met.
* Always pull a post with an image from, for example -- talented artist/photographer
* Never show two posts from the same user in a row.
* Include trending posts, but only if it's not/is "US pol" (for example)

Make a tool to design an algo, let us give them cute names, let people vote and argue about which ones are the best.

@Aurochs
in reply to bovaz

mastodon - Link to source

myrmepropagandist

@bovaz @aurochs

For better or worse mastodon has primary influence over what features are "really" a part of the fedi.

I feel they are far too adverse to change and stuck on pleasing existing users, not making the app, more accessible and popular.

There is this *false* idea that being popular is the same thing as being corporately captured, driven by a desire for profits, ads.

There are other good reasons to want your app to be fun and popular. Not esoteric and exclusive.

@Aurochs @bovaz
in reply to myrmepropagandist

mastodon - Link to source

myrmepropagandist

@bovaz @aurochs

For one thing, if your app is popular it can be because the UI is easy to use and the design is excellent.

Equally important? You can only build diverse, resilient communities if you can bring a wide range of users together. That cross-pollination between otherwise desperate communities is the magic of social media for me.

I often call the fedi "a nice college town" and it even has an HOA (an HOA that gets huffy and offended if you point out they are acting like an HOA)

@Aurochs @bovaz
in reply to myrmepropagandist

mastodon - Link to source

myrmepropagandist

@bovaz @aurochs

I understand the fear and revulsion some feel from the words

"we need to make the fediverse popular"

Most of the time when apps push to be popular it's about making money, it's about converting eyeballs to IPO as @pluralistic has so clearly described in his theory of #enshittification

And YET: "popular" also means more egalitarian "for everyone" --I don't need to see a conversation about 'Italian Football Bloopers', but I want it to be here too.

#enshittification @Cory Doctorow @Aurochs @bovaz
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

mastodon - Link to source

Lee 🌏

@me
Having to choose a server i just do not see as problem, it doesn't stop people using email. It does add a tiny bit of friction but not enough to stop people joining the Fediverse en masse.
The problem is we have failed articulate the benefits/reasons for being here well enough to draw a critical mass of people into the Fediverse for the network effect to really kick in.
We need to target the people who will most likely understand the Fediverse and why it matters, and get them over.
@Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Lee 🌏

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Jonathan Lamothe

@Lee 🌏 @Taylor Lorenz Despite what you may believe, it is the number one most frequently cited objection I hear when introducing people to the fediverse.

Also, the other problem as I mentioned is the network effect. All their friends are in the corpo-controlled silos. We can have a technically better product, but if they can't reach the people they want to reach, it's kind of pointless.

@Taylor Lorenz @Lee 🌏
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

mastodon - Link to source

Lee 🌏

@me
Yes, it's absolutely the network effect and I believe that absolutely trumps the mild inconvenience of choosing a server.
If all of a person's friends were on the Fediverse I believe that would result in them putting up with any minor registration issues for the far greater benefit of being on the Fedivers with their friends.
All of us have decided that the benefits of the Fediverse far outweigh the issues. We just need to find the like mined souls who would feel the same as us, if they were presented with right messages. And build that network effect.
@Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Taylor Lorenz

mastodon - Link to source

Hugh Ferguson

one thing, the decentralized nature means there is perhaps too much choice. Do you get an account on mastodon.social, mstdn.ca, mastodon.com, tusky.whatever.... And also what app do you use to access it? When there was Twitter, there was one official app. With Mastodon, there are a multitude. Sometimes too much choice is counterproductive.

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