Skip to main content

mastodon - Link to source

We hereby challenge _all_ other messaging apps, FOSS or not, to provide a more convenient private onboarding experience than #deltachat

1. Install app
2. "Create new profile"
3. Enter nick name, tap "Agree and continue"
4. Tap "+" and "new contact" and provide/scan qr code/link

Voila! A secure private chat, familiar to those coming from Whatsapp or Telegram (without "AI", with #a11y).

Note: chat identities are private and can not be queried or discovered. Servers keep no track or metadata

Start screen of https;//get.delta.chat apps which shows Delta chat logo (Greek letter delta) Secure decentralized chat "Create new profile" button highlighted
Create profile screen With a field to enter a name ... "Fediverse chicken" was typed A link to the privacy policy of nine.testrun.org, the default onboarding chatmail relay A highlighted button "agree and continue" A button "use other server"
Screenshot of newly created profile Title bar "fediverse chicken" Two chats in the chat list: "Device messages" with instructions how to setup contact with another chat profile "Saved messages" where you can "save" messages from other chats to memorize them
#a11y #deltachat
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
Unknown parent

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@koteisaev yes the "setup chat" or "setup group chat" parts can still be improved and better guided, especially when not in the same room and not having a friend who guides.
@Magical Cat
in reply to Delta Chat

Dusty
mastodon - Link to source
Dusty
• •
I agree, #Deltachat is awesome for superfast account creation, then sharing the account by QR code. No password set or stored, no phone number or email given, no password manager grumbled about necessitating
#deltachat
in reply to Delta Chat

Magical Cat
mastodon - Link to source
Magical Cat
• •
I considered myself "tech-savvy", but DeltaChat was my first software of that kind (e2e private messenger) and my contact was far from me, and not a "tech-savvy" person. So it was not obvious for me that I had to instruct my contact who is far away about additional "off-the-band" actions need for us to add each other to contact.
Now i aware of all that, but my contact got discouraged with that complexity and don't want to try again.
Have to keep using whatsapp (it sometimes get blocked).
in reply to Delta Chat

Frederik Braun �
mastodon - Link to source
Frederik Braun �
• •
Surely, I am not the only one blocked on the decision which server to pick for a new account and what kind of trust in metadata goes into the server?
in reply to Frederik Braun �

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
servce choice is a tricky question right now and one which we carefully avoid confronting initial users with, during the default onboarding experience. Right now, we regard it as safe to use any of the listed chatmail.at/relays (manually curated). We are working towards "randomized" onboarding by further minimizing metadata seen by relays, and introduce multi-relay support so that choices don't easily leave you stranded in case of blocking/failure.

Chatmail: Relays

Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!
chatmail.at
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Delta Chat

Fabrice Desré
mastodon - Link to source
Fabrice Desré
• •
@freddy Maybe also use a more officially sounding domain than "testrun.org" ? I know it's legit, but it looks a bit odd
@Frederik Braun �
in reply to Fabrice Desré

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •

we hear you but it's the truth: by onboarding to #deltachat today you are diving into an experimental testrun of "the future of email" , also known as #chatmail chatmail.at

Finally we, as app distributors, want to fully disentangle from any "default" server. Testrun will become history 😀

homepage of https://testrun.org with the subtitle "experimenting with the future of Email"

Chatmail

Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!
chatmail.at
#deltachat #chatmail
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Delta Chat

Jonathan Lamothe
friendica (DFRN) - Link to source
Jonathan Lamothe
•

@Delta Chat The biggest reason I recommend Delta Chat to people is how easy the onboarding process is.

Well, that and proper E2EE.

@Delta Chat
in reply to Delta Chat

Шуро
friendica - Link to source
Шуро
• •
@Delta Chat are underlying servers dynamic so people get different ones? Otherwise you'll end up on huge single point of failure.
@Delta Chat
in reply to Шуро

Andrey [0xdc, 0x09];
gotosocial - Link to source
Andrey [0xdc, 0x09];
• •
Afaik no, Delta suggests only the default nine.testrun.org instance
in reply to Delta Chat

Шуро
friendica - Link to source
Шуро
• •

@Delta Chat this likely won't help much against censorship but is certainly welcome for other reasons. So I get it right that it will be possible to migrate between servers?

@Andrey [0xdc, 0x09];

@Delta Chat
in reply to Delta Chat

Kalle Kniivilä
mastodon - Link to source
Kalle Kniivilä
• •
@shuro As I understand, there are non-disclosed chatmail servers in Russia? But if the server addresses were to be disclosed, they could be shut down by the authorities? This is obviously a dilemma...
@Шуро
in reply to Kalle Kniivilä

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@kallekn @shuro publishing existence of relays and someone using them for a block is a tricky issue, indeed. We have preliminary discussions mostly around learning about new relays during chatting with others, and then being able to automatically use those, without any central list anywhere. IOW, the information which chatmail relays exist should be distributed across the planet with no central oversight.
@Шуро @Kalle Kniivilä
in reply to Kalle Kniivilä

Шуро
friendica - Link to source
Шуро
• •

@Kalle Kniivilä sadly our censors are not completely dumb and run device farms to detect even undisclosed servers which apps connect to one way or another. This way they managed to render Tor practically non-functional without private bridge servers as all public ways to distribute them eventually lead to blocks. So it doesn't matter much 🙁

@Delta Chat

@Delta Chat @Kalle Kniivilä
in reply to Шуро

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@shuro @kallekn fair points but there is one key difference with Tor: people already form social private contexts in their messaging groups. Using chatting between actual people for distributing relay knowledge can not be replicated by having thousands of device robots in some cellar because the app will only give you the same initial relays. New information comes in through chats, and not even we, as developers, see those relays.
@Шуро @Kalle Kniivilä
in reply to Delta Chat

Kalle Kniivilä
mastodon - Link to source
Kalle Kniivilä
• •
@shuro It would be nice to have a very large amount of relays, of course. But if I lived in Russia I would be very wary about setting up my own relay, because eventually the authorities could find it and I could be charged for whatever crime they make up, like aiding terrorists.
@Шуро
in reply to Delta Chat

Kenny
sharkey - Link to source
Kenny
• •
Onboarding is cool until step 4.
People don't like scanning QRs: when people add my Signal, even if the username is shown on my screen right below a QR code, nobody scanned the QR yet. Everybody just typed the username. Scanning QRs kinda sucks.
And it's rather impractical when the person is not next to me. At which point sending a long link also is meh (or, depending on context, just not possible).
in reply to Kenny

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@kbruen Scanning QR codes is a pretty well known UX metaphor these days but indeed not well suited for setting up a chat with a remote person (unless in a video call). We are certainly going to circle back to this UX issue. Meanwhile in reality it's often the case that two people start to chat, then do a group chat, and invite others to join that group which allows to instantly get access to all people in the chat without having to do the qr/link dance with each member.
@Kenny
in reply to Delta Chat

Kenny
sharkey - Link to source
Kenny
• •
Perhaps I'm the odd one here, but I don't have a group with my friends, since most of them are friends with me but not with each other
in reply to Kenny

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@kbruen indeed it's generally true probably that a lot of us don't have lots of friends that are also friends with each other. Wherever groups do something together (parent/school councils, sports associations, political groups, all kinds of shared hobby groups) Delta can more easily help, probably.
@Kenny
in reply to Magical Cat

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@koteisaev sorry it didn't work out. IIt's clear there is room for improvement, and to make it more obvious how to setup contact. Currently, it helps a lot if someone guides the process for a group aka "Now click this link/scan this QR to join our group" after which the person immediately has secure contact to everyone in the group. Already, we spent hundreds of hours to arrive at where we are. Will be some effort to improve it further across all platforms.
@Magical Cat
Unknown parent

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@koteisaev no worries, we already discussed several possible improvements. It will take some time to get around to tackle them. Onboarding and getting in contact are topics worth getting back to.
@Magical Cat
in reply to Delta Chat

Crazy Pony
mastodon - Link to source
Crazy Pony
• •
will Deltachat one day be interoperable with Matrix and XMPP ?
in reply to Crazy Pony

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •

1) there are bridges ("matterdelta") which provide interop with Matrix, XMPP, Telegrram, ssh and anything that Matterbridge provides. It doesn't preserve end-to-end encryption and so bridging bot choice is tricky.

2) There are growing efforts around 3rd party #chatmail clients chatmail.at/clients. Interoperability is "free" between all chatmail clients (#deltachat being the prominent one). Unlike #Signal we welcome third parties to the party 😀


Chatmail: Clients

Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!
chatmail.at
#signal #deltachat #chatmail
This entry was edited (1 month ago)

Delta Chat reshared this.

in reply to Delta Chat

Limping
mastodon - Link to source
Limping
• •
@crazy_pony wow, I see a KaiOS Chatmail Client.
I wonder if there are any comments how it works.
@Crazy Pony
in reply to Delta Chat

Nick
mastodon - Link to source
Nick
• •

I use DeltaChat on my tablet and ArcaneChat on my phone. Other than branding, is there any real difference between them?

@crazy_pony

@Crazy Pony
in reply to Nick

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@ratcatcher @crazy_pony in terms of core functionality there is no difference between ArcaneChat and Delta Chat -- both are chatmail clients using the same core library which performs all networking/encryption/contact/group/chat/realtime-setup etc.
ArcaneChat is maybe a bit more of an experiments-pushing client, and some of its features made it back to mainline, and arcanechat is continously rebasing on mainline, in turn.
@Crazy Pony @Nick
in reply to Delta Chat

Wilfried Klaebe
mastodon - Link to source
Wilfried Klaebe
• •
I was going to rant "another mobile only"... but then I did look first and found there's also AppImages, deb/rpm/FlatPak/Snap packages, and even .tar.gz - so one does NOT need to "1. Install app".
in reply to Delta Chat

indyradio
mastodon - Link to source
indyradio
• •

so, you say this is good? I'll give it a try.
...since you did not post a link, and I did find it on your site, I will not post a link either. 😀 thank you

It may be private, unless someone sees you on the way in.
I'll be sure to clean house before using this.

This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Delta Chat

rootnode
mastodon - Link to source
rootnode
• •
is now possible to use my own mail address for it?
in reply to rootnode

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@rootnode yes, you can use email addresses from any modern email service that provides a certain level of security. Just make sure you use a *dedicated* address. Using email addresses that are simultanously used by non-chatmail clients are not supported, however. In prior times we tried to make it work but it detrimental to security outcomes and easily gets confusing for users. So email addresses are fine but need to be dedicated for chatting via chatmail clients.
@rootnode
in reply to Delta Chat

rootnode
mastodon - Link to source
rootnode
• •
what if the email address is self-hosted? Does it need to be whitelisted or just fulfill certain requirements?
in reply to rootnode

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@rootnode self hosted email address is fine as long as it's exclusively used by chatmail clients (who were setup using the 'add second device' work flows or exporting/importing a backup file)
@rootnode
in reply to Delta Chat

rootnode
mastodon - Link to source
rootnode
• •
from a UX perspective “add second device” doesn’t sound like “enter alternative address”. It sounds like “Inwent with one of the big ones and am entering a second device”. Unless there is a clear guidance on which requirements need to be fulfilled to self-host, Inwould not call it decentralized.
in reply to rootnode

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •

@rootnode "add second device'" is found in settings of an established chat profile. It's about setting up multiple devices for the same chat chat profile.

To use a different email address it's "create new profile" and then "use other server". If you have further questions or suggestions maybe better use support.delta.chat


Delta.Chat

You need Delta.Chat support? Ask the Community!
Delta.Chat
@rootnode
in reply to Delta Chat

rootnode
mastodon - Link to source
rootnode
• •
so, when I tried to first start the app, it only allowed on your server, no other systems. Then when I try to change it it tells me that changing accounts is not supported yet and I should check back in a few MONRHS. Sorry, but this is fishy at beet6.
in reply to rootnode

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@rootnode in the second screen tap "use other server" if you don't want to use the default server.
@rootnode
Unknown parent

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@lexinova @upofadown FWIW there are some non-electron clients chatmail.at/clients and an upcoming post about an experimental Tauri one. The current #deltachat desktop electron-based client tries to both size-bloat/ram wise do better, and also e.g. bars the frontend rendering process from doing any Internet connections which are purely done via the Rust core library, for all #chatmail clients.

Chatmail: Clients

Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!
chatmail.at
#deltachat #chatmail @upofadown
Unknown parent

Bruce Walzer 🇨🇦
mastodon - Link to source
Bruce Walzer 🇨🇦
• •

@lexinova Message retention more or less negates the benefit of forward secrecy. If an attacker gets your secret key information they for sure are going to get your old messages. Since most people want to keep their old messages around forward secrecy is not very important for encrypted messaging.

articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=pgp… (my article)

Forward Secrecy [The Call of the Open Sidewalk]

articles.59.ca
in reply to Delta Chat

Sheri Gulam
mastodon - Link to source
Sheri Gulam
• •

the last step can be challenging. You need to be close and have working camera (yes, people have broken cameras) to scan QR, or have an already established communication channel to send the link, which in slme situations defeats the purpose.

There should be some human readable / easy to memorize or pronounce "nickname", "username", "ID" or something, so than you can tell someone "just type John Doe once you install DeltaChat to find me".

in reply to Sheri Gulam

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@vort3 you have a point and it's kind of funny that even though #chatmail uses the email system, one can't just give out an email address. The challenge is to establish automatic end-to-end encryption while maintaining identity privacy (in Delta Chat we want chat profiles to be fully private and decentralized so can't just do some central registry). There are some ideas on how to bring back the ease of telling your address and people contacting you. Just more involved than it sounds 😀
#chatmail @Sheri Gulam
in reply to Delta Chat

Sheri Gulam
mastodon - Link to source
Sheri Gulam
• •

hope I see this issue solved some day 😀

Thank you for great app.

in reply to Delta Chat

Gianmarco Gargiulo
mastodon - Link to source
Gianmarco Gargiulo
• •
throwing a random idea in: if your camera doesn't work, how about sharing the invite through NFC? I believe LINE does this, not to mention it's similar to how you can exchange contacts between iPhones.
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Gianmarco Gargiulo

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@gianmarcogg03 @vort3 sounds like something good for support forum to discuss. Supporting older android and iOS versions could complicate it.
@Gianmarco Gargiulo @Sheri Gulam
Unknown parent

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@scott @koteisaev we think we know pretty exactly what you mean and why you hesitate. It's a healthy approach! Also some of our own contributors hold off on introducing it into some of their groups and for good reasons. It's important to understand and read the room before suggesting. There usually is only one try. An interesting related read ribbonfarm.com/2012/05/09/welc…

Welcome to the Future Nauseous

www.ribbonfarm.com
@Magical Cat @Scott Murray
in reply to Delta Chat

indyradio
mastodon - Link to source
indyradio
• •

@abolitionmedia Hello, I was just appreciating your work. Maybe we should set up a couple of these servers. I have an extra vps and will test one this week. Thought it worth a mention. I installed this, and it looks pretty good. The fact it's not fully p2p seems a disadvantage, but it looks like the server is not hard to set up. Hopefully not. chaos.social/@delta/1154793927…

Delta Chat

2025-11-02 09:28:14

mastodon - Link to source

We hereby challenge _all_ other messaging apps, FOSS or not, to provide a more convenient private onboarding experience than #deltachat

1. Install app
2. "Create new profile"
3. Enter nick name, tap "Agree and continue"
4. Tap "+" and "new contact" and provide/scan qr code/link

Voila! A secure private chat, familiar to those coming from Whatsapp or Telegram (without "AI", with #a11y).

Note: chat identities are private and can not be queried or discovered. Servers keep no track or metadata

Start screen of https;//get.delta.chat apps which shows Delta chat logo (Greek letter delta) Secure decentralized chat "Create new profile" button highlighted
Create profile screen With a field to enter a name ... "Fediverse chicken" was typed A link to the privacy policy of nine.testrun.org, the default onboarding chatmail relay A highlighted button "agree and continue" A button "use other server"
Screenshot of newly created profile Title bar "fediverse chicken" Two chats in the chat list: "Device messages" with instructions how to setup contact with another chat profile "Saved messages" where you can "save" messages from other chats to memorize them

@abolitionmedia
in reply to Delta Chat

[RoÆ] Viktor Bobanovich
mastodon - Link to source
[RoÆ] Viktor Bobanovich
• •
hey now xmpp is basically the same in that regard... depending on the client
in reply to Delta Chat

Çois
mastodon - Link to source
Çois
• •
what is the disk space allowed for this kind of user? i'd like to promote the solution to my social neighbourhood
in reply to Çois

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@frankiezafe default onboarding currently has 700MB per user but that's rarely ever reached and might be lowered again. Messages are removed server-side unconditionally after 20 days. More info nine.testrun.org/info.html
Other relays have different limits (often higher) chatmail.at/relays and people can onboard through the respective relay website after installing delta chat.

Chatmail: Relays

Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!
chatmail.at
@Çois
in reply to Çois

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@frankiezafe messages are stored on the device, the relay which transfers the message stores it only temporarily. So the disk space on your end device is more relevant. If you run out of local storage space, you can configure Delta Chat so it deletes all messages after a year or so.
@Çois
in reply to Delta Chat

BoloMKXXVIII
mastodon - Link to source
BoloMKXXVIII
• •
I work in a marketing department. Because of what I have learned about how QR codes can be used/abused, I absolutely will not scan a QR code. I would rather type a random 40 character string than expose my device.
in reply to Delta Chat

Shoq
mastodon - Link to source
Shoq
• •
Ugh, I’m old. The Eagles released “Desperado” 52 fucking years ago. The western that they made in England. And wasn’t a hit for the Eagles until Linda Ronstadt covered it.
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Delta Chat

Ferrex
mastodon - Link to source
Ferrex
• •
I think Olvid has a similar, if not identical, onboarding experience.
in reply to Ferrex

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@ferrex you are right. #Olvid is pretty well done regarding UX for boarding and getting in contact, largely similar to how #deltachat does onboarding, with interesting differences. Something to learn from (we think in bot directions). Thanks for pointing this out to us!
Do you happen to know any olvid people in the fediverse? It's not an open source project and work with a central transport server, no federation etc, but still interesting to engage with from a UX standpoint.
#deltachat #olvid @Ferrex
in reply to Delta Chat

Ferrex
mastodon - Link to source
Ferrex
• •
I don't think anybody from Olvid is on the fediverse. You can contact them through email, last time I checked, the CEO was the person replying
This entry was edited (1 month ago)
in reply to Delta Chat

Till Kleisli
mastodon - Link to source
Till Kleisli
• •
I remember testing delta chat some years ago, back then I could just use any email address to use it. 😊
Did that change? Do I have to use a chatmail instance instead now?
in reply to Till Kleisli

Delta Chat
mastodon - Link to source
Delta Chat
• •
@kleisli see delta.chat/en/help#can-i-use-a…

Delta Chat: FAQ

What is Delta Chat? Delta Chat is a reliable, decentralized and secure instant messaging app, available for mobile and desktop platforms. Instant creation of private chat profiles with secure and i...
delta.chat
@Till Kleisli

This website uses cookies. If you continue browsing this website, you agree to the usage of cookies.

⇧