If you're using AI to make content you're saving time and money but you're making shitty content. If you can't see the shittyness of the content, it's all the more reason you shouldn't be doing it.
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Noisecolor
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •There are cases when scientists publish papers that they have written with ai and don't even understand themselves. But the papers are good. That happens a lot as humanity has already produced a lot of knowledge and just hasn't connected the dots a lot of times.
That's is a good example why you are wrong with your absolutist statements. Good content can and does come from ai. You just hate ai.
Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer)
in reply to Noisecolor • • •Noisecolor
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •Your argument comes from your feeling.
My argument is sort of a truism: If the content is good, the content is good.
You can debate the ethical side of the source, but the actual content.
ಚಿರಾಗ್ 🌹✊🏾Ⓥ🌱🇵🇸 (he/him)
in reply to Noisecolor • • •@Noisecolor As a researcher, hell no. You should understand every word and idea you put in a paper. If you don't, you're not doing good science. This is basic shit.
And yes, I'd say the same thing even if they didn't use AI. That doesn't somehow magically turn bullshit into great science.
UkeleleEric
in reply to Noisecolor • • •\u1f0a1
in reply to Noisecolor • • •Jonathan Lamothe likes this.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to \u1f0a1 • •Erwin Rossen 🔸
in reply to Noisecolor • • •Joe Vinegar 🏳️🌈
in reply to Noisecolor • • •Science is about understanding (and explaining).
The only way we know scientific content is actually good is if at least a few scientists validate it by understanding it and eventually successfully replicate or exploit the results.
AI content has not been understood by the meat proxy that shared it, so it lacks the very first step. The humans which prove (or disprove) that, are making the actual science. And why should anyone have their research agenda dictated by random enterprises *for free*? It's already as bad as it is with proper funding.
Allen but one of the bad ones, woooo
in reply to Noisecolor • • •ButchCoolidge
in reply to Noisecolor • • •@Noisecolor I agree with you, but not when it comes down to science.
Looking at so much shit content made before AI, it helps some people to create better content. To research their ideas, to reflect and to get better into the knowledge. But your statement really depends on the actual content.
Anthony Horton
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •@Noisecolor Exactly.
The entire point of a scientific paper is to communicate scientific results to (at least) other people working in the field. If not even the authors of the paper understand it then no one else can be expected to either, and it's a complete failure at the one job that a scientific paper has.
Noisecolor
in reply to Anthony Horton • • •Hypolite Petovan
in reply to Noisecolor • • •C++ pays the bills
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •@Noisecolor
Exactly. GenAI produces something that looks plausibly like a good paper if you don't understand what you're reading. No true scientist would publish a paper without understanding it, without having tried to disprove its central thesis, or without being prepared to answer questions about it.
Michael Knudsen
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •@Noisecolor remember Feynman's "cargo cult science" speech?
This is non-science that the authors themselves cannot make meaning of.
Imagine if these people built houses and didn't know why they'd keep standing.
"but people can live in the ones that don't fall over"
Wacholderpolka
in reply to Noisecolor • • •AI created great content and can give the user the power, to create something he wasn’t able before. Many people have excellent ideas but 99% will never be realised because of missing money, knowledge…
AI can partly fix that.
Hypolite Petovan
in reply to Wacholderpolka • • •@Wacholderpolka Except even in this case the "user" didn't create anything. The AI generates the things according to criterion that are partly obscured by design and partly controlled by a commercial entity.
There's nothing to fix here, if you want to actually create something, you have to do it yourself. Not everybody is meant to be author, visual artist, musician or coder, and we're completely unmaking what it means to create something as AI slop generated at scale overtakes human creations.
The "good enough" attitude is killing human culture for the profit of a handful of overvalued companies. This will not end well no matter what happens.
UkeleleEric
in reply to Noisecolor • • •Noisecolor
in reply to UkeleleEric • • •So unlikely that it had no chance of solving any mathematical problems? 😂
Hypolite Petovan
in reply to Noisecolor • • •@Noisecolor It does, but so unhelpfully that several Field medalists had to take a stand against blind mathematical problem solving because the scientific benefit isn't the solution itself, it's the journey a human took to solve it.
implicator.ai/25-fields-medali…
UkeleleEric
in reply to Noisecolor • • •Noisecolor
in reply to UkeleleEric • • •I am and it did. 100%. There is some controversy the way it did it was combining previous work, which is true, but there is no doubt that it succeeded where humans did not and there are other examples across science.
UkeleleEric
in reply to Noisecolor • • •Noisecolor
in reply to UkeleleEric • • •Maybe there will come a time where this will become the norm. Human intellect will not be enough. Its not that hard to imagine, considering we have tons of scifi on the subject.
Hypolite Petovan
in reply to Noisecolor • • •eestileib (she/hers)
in reply to Noisecolor • • •Can you provide a few example papers that meet the criteria you're talking about?
Noisecolor
in reply to eestileib (she/hers) • • •No, that would consume way too much time and would be impossible for me to prove to you even if you were really open to it, which is uncertain.
It makes no sense to go into that. You can ignore it.
Wacholderpolka
in reply to Noisecolor • • •One thing is for sure: it is here to stay.
Noisecolor
in reply to Wacholderpolka • • •@wacholderpolka
I think even on Mastodon its changing a bit. It was worse half a year ago, dont you think?
Magnus Ahltorp
in reply to Wacholderpolka • • •Hypolite Petovan likes this.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Wacholderpolka • •@Wacholderpolka @Noisecolor
Uh-huh.
isaiprofitable.com/
Noisecolor
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •@me @wacholderpolka
Uh-Oh! Who cares?
You know who? You. Nobody else.
Because their valuation start with a T. Nobody cares about current profitability.
Amazon wasnt profitable for more than a decade.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Noisecolor • •@Noisecolor What you say about Amazon is true. I think you need to understand the concept of survivorship bias though. For every Amazon there were hundreds of other companies that went belly up.
Is it possible that the AI industry will eventually become profitable? I suppose I have to concede that. I don't see the notion that it is anywhere near an inevitability to be a position that any rational person can defend though.
You are free to believe as you like, despite the mountain of contradictory evidence. I'm not the thought police. Just don't expect me to believe you.
Noisecolor
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •I'm not trying to make you believe. Let's say I'm wondering what the scenario would be that this technology doesn't "catch on".
You think people will stop using llms? And the trillions of investments will just do nothing? Get scraped or something?
All the companies changing their structure, processes, to center their way of working around ai , they are all wrong and will restructure back?
It's not realistic.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Noisecolor • •Noisecolor
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Thats fine, thats somewhat likely to me too. But a lot of people (especially on Mastodon) expect ai just to go away.
Its not. We are building infrastructure to make it better and cheaper. People will not stop using llms even if "money runs out". A lot of people and companies want it.
RalfMaximus
in reply to Noisecolor • • •@Noisecolor
LLMs can only ever generate mid-grade content, the absolute average of everything consumed in training. It's designed that way. To statistically choose the next most likely word/phrase in a string. It can never "discover" anything new.
If it's "good" that's because it's regurgitating something good a human wrote, that the LLM consumed.
Why would anyone be excited by this?
Noisecolor
in reply to RalfMaximus • • •I'm excited when it solves my tasks or stuff like navier-stokes equation.
@grumpygamer
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Noisecolor • •@Noisecolor @Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) I am not a scientist and thus cannot comment specifically on that.
That said, I am a programmer. When I look at some of the trash that people have vibe coded, it makes me wonder if these scientific papers are actually any good, or if they just look good.
I've seen "working" code come out of AI, but all too often the actual underlying code ends up being brittle, unmaintainable, and a nightmare to reason through. It may look to an outsider like good code, but any even moderately competent programmer understands the perils of the massive amounts of technical debt these things needlessly introduce.
Maybe it's different with scientific papers, but I doubt it.
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Hypolite Petovan
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe likes this.
Noisecolor
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •I also work in software development and im very close to all the issues. But we cant ignore that it does solve mathematical problems, ones unsolvable for centuries.
Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" Quéru
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •Hypolite Petovan
in reply to Jean-Baptiste "JBQ" Quéru • • •PsySal
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •divVerent
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •Which is why IMHO the only place for AI generated content is what previously was MS paint scribble memes like rage comics, troll science etc.
But... even that probably was better before AI. Because now thanks to AI, no one would even look at a meme made that old way...
Mindiell
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •Correction: "If you re using AI [...] you should'nt be doing it."
Even if it was of excellent quality, AI is still destroyng life on earth, stop using it, don't use it, period.
Claudius
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •Stefan Scholl
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •eobet
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •they might be (currently) saving money but everyone else is (or will be) paying for it...
eobet.com/fun/llms/
TehAppKiller
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •Keldrim
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •I would say the "saving money" part is only now because tech faschos try enforcing it and for now take the bill mostly them self, seen so many slop coders already who get overwhelmed be the token cost and cry like a baby about it.
And the "time" part is also temporary on many aspects as soon you have to go in and fix the underlying mess you don't even understand at this point, if it comes to code specifically.
And yeah for everything art related no brainer it sucks and i still have no idea how anyone can find it appealing.
Lou.
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Lou. • •@Lou. @Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) What we're calling AI this week "improves" by (mostly non-consentually) slurping up every piece of work that humans have ever produced, and consuming massive amounts of energy and fresh water, forcing the people unfortunate enough to live near the data centres to foot the bill.
Totally a good deal, right? 🙃
Tamitoune
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •Sola
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •mossman
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • •ironically, while I read this my wife is watching a "documentary" on YouTube about the Italian town we visited yesterday. Images are all obvious slop - which pains me no end and makes me instantly doubt any of the "facts" presented.
At least this one seems to be original text - the first one was obviously LLM text and voice as well. All the content in YouTube about this historical town seem to be slop... So annoying!
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • •Nina Kalinina likes this.