If other jobs had the same hiring process as programming roles:
"For this sous chef role, we will only accept applicants familiar with modern cooking methods such as microwave ovens and freeze-dried Maggi powders".
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If other jobs had the same hiring process as programming roles:
"For this sous chef role, we will only accept applicants familiar with modern cooking methods such as microwave ovens and freeze-dried Maggi powders".
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Alda Vigdís
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Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Alda Vigdís • •like this
Alda Vigdís, Ozzelot, Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷, Dr. hc.* Grober Unfug, Enola Knezevic, i eat beees, Will 🏳️🌈, sidereal and Zapier like this.
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Alda Vigdís
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe likes this.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Alda Vigdís • •sidereal likes this.
arclight
in reply to Alda Vigdís • • •As a nuclear engineer, I have never been asked to show my portfolio of reactor designs I maintain in my free time, I have never been asked to derive the six-factor formula, the quantization of angular momentum, Brehmsstrahlung, or to whiteboard gas centrifuge isotopic separation, water hammer, hydrogen detonation, or cross-section resonance integrals.
There's something deeply wrong with an industry that presumes you're a fraud unless repeatedly and performatively demonstrated otherwise and treats the hiring process as a demented form of 80s-era fraternity hazing.
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projectmoon
in reply to arclight • • •big difference is that nuclear engineering is regulated and has mandatory ceritications and licenses, which show you have the skills required. While certifications exist in the software world, they're not the same unfortunately...
That being said, take home assignments and all that are terrible metrics in interviews.
arclight
in reply to projectmoon • • •projectmoon
in reply to arclight • • •I don't disagree, really. I went through this at the beginning of 2024. Some companies have insane requirements. I know my skill levels. The places I got hired by didn't have take-home tests. They did have discussions about personal projects, though. And in one I showed off some code I had already written. I think that's far enough, as it gives the interviewer insight into what motivates you and how you approach things. Short of some kind of regulatory framework and nationally-administered software engineering licenses, I don't really see an alternative. Part of finding an employee is making sure they can do what you're hiring them for. Take-home tests or live coding exercises are a stupid way to do it. Discussion of a relevant business problem with maybe light pseudo-code, yes perhaps.
I don't know. I really can't think of a better way...
Verity Allan
in reply to projectmoon • • •Glitzersachen
in reply to Verity Allan • • •@vla22 @projectmoon @arclight
But again --- do we demand "earlier work" to be shown in other professions? A "personal portfolio" is nice for an artist.
But for a lawyer? For an engineer? For a software developer?
Riley S. Faelan
in reply to Glitzersachen • • •@glitzersachen Well, much of trial lawyers' work is usually public, and rumoured about. So, at least some lawyers often do have a sort of 'portfolios'. And until relatively recently, it was commonplace in most legal systems to, as a professional courtesy, arrange that lawyers who, perhaps just beginning out in a corporate lawshop, ended up doing much 'quiet' work, would occasionally also get to do litigation, which is often seen as a more valuable kind of lawyering than, say, writing test cases to a complicated contract exactly because of the visibility. (The 'relatively recently' clause concerns the "paralegal" career track of some legal systems, which nowadays can often do much the "low-grade" lawyers' work, but without litigation privileges, and thus, without the tenure track.)
@vla22 @projectmoon @alda @arclight
Glitzersachen
in reply to Riley S. Faelan • • •@riley @vla22 @projectmoon @arclight
Not all legal work is in trials. I suppose most of it isn't any BTW there are also the confidential parts of a file (client/lawyer consultations and notes) that are not public.
> The 'relatively recently' clause concerns the "paralegal" career
You are arguing US centric 😉
Alda Vigdís
in reply to Glitzersachen • • •Alda Vigdís
in reply to Alda Vigdís • • •Riley S. Faelan
in reply to Alda Vigdís • • •In Germany, it's seems to be kind of routine for lawyers' websites to explicitly say that under the law that regulates lawyers' payment, it's categorically prohibited for a lawyer to offer any free legal advice.
I haven't yet figured out if pro bono is a thing in Germany, or if, maybe, there's some special twist for this in the law.
@glitzersachen @vla22 @projectmoon @arclight
Glitzersachen
in reply to Riley S. Faelan • • •@riley @vla22 @projectmoon @arclight
> prohibited for a lawyer to offer any free legal advice
But, AFAIK the fee is negotiable. There are sites that provide consultation for a fee as low as 50.- EUR.
> if pro bono is a thing in Germany, or if, maybe, there's some special twist for this in the law.
My understanding -- IANAL, though -- that the RDG has specific provision for law students providing pro bono legal advice under supervision of a qualified legal professional.
In court other (local) regulations apply.
Riley S. Faelan
in reply to Glitzersachen • • •@glitzersachen These are generally called 'legal clinics' in English. They're useful, but they can necessarily only deal with relatively routine matters. Classic pro bono involves an already fully licenced, and often, rather experienced, lawyer working on a case that is significant — which often means, in some ways, complicated — without charge.
@alda @vla22 @projectmoon @arclight