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When a #neurodivergent person tells you about how something is difficult for them, rather than thinking of them as whiny, consider that this probably means they have a certain level of trust in you to drop their mask enough to do so.

Invalidating that struggle is likely also a pretty effective way of eroding that trust.
#ActuallyADHD

#neurodivergent #actuallyadhd
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Ángela Stella Matutina

@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics

It's more profitable for them to "interpret" (distort) than to try to understand. Becomes habit, they do it to each other without thinking. Discard the words and keep their twisted idea of what they meant.

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@emily_rugburn @angelastella @autistics
.
I want to use the R-word for the shock value, I want to say, Watch for my next blog, "R-worded by Violence," and I'm serious about it. It should be paranoia, but the same type that's paranoid really is dangerous to everybody, so it's complicated, but that's how I would like to classify them, disabled by their "strength."
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@emily_rugburn @angelastella @autistics
.
gawd, I don't know, I only hatched as Autistic a few years ago . . .
.
I've been thinking of Autism and Allism, NTness as opposites, I think I've heard something about people otherwise ND but still Allistic, still not Autistic
.
I suppose there could be both sorts, all combinations
.
that's all I got, I hope someone has better 💜
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Jonathan Lamothe

@sonja @Ángela Stella Matutina @Actually Autistics @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama I have, but I'd not be surprised to learn that I'm actually AuDHD. I just don't have a formal diagnosis. When I got my ADHD diagnosis, the two were still mutially exclusive per the DSM.
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Ángela Stella Matutina

@autistics @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn

Used to misinterpret often until my twenties but got better at reading people (normies mostly, really). Misinterpretation was an entirely different pattern from the NT one, though.

(Still w/o formal diagnosis here. Personal certainty at 80% for ADHD, > 50% por autism; other things not at all clear but comorbidities are common; late-blooming trans, FWIW, and there are correlations with that.)

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Ángela Stella Matutina

@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics

Has to live? Hmm. Confirmation that we ADHD fuckers are widely different from each other. I must tolerate my chaos because I cannot control or reduce it, but it hurts me a lot. I lived in ordered environments and didn't become nonfunctional. Autistic need for certain stimuli notwithstanding.

Not defending or justifying anything, just illustrating the AuDHD spectrum.

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Ángela Stella Matutina

@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics

AFAICT that interaction does not usually happen, and I have sensory processing issues that cause me to... malfunction. (Had something close to a meltdown last month during a very noisy, chaotic meeting at a place that had become dark. Not getting visual cues as to who was speaking was the last straw for me.)

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Ángela Stella Matutina

@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics

Now that you mention it, that is what happens to me when I smoke weed above a certain dose. If I remove myself from social stimuli, I fall asleep like a baby. Way easier and cleaner than with alcohol.

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
.
I need weed for sleep, but also to be awake.
.
that experience was almost fifty years ago, I thought I was having some real brain event, I wasn’t sure I was going to wake up
as myself, I couldn’t think two words together, thought I was, uh, fragmented. 😬
.
Happily woke up OK. 👍
I mean, that’s my opinion, LOL.
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Energetic Nova

@emily_rugburn @angelastella @autistics @punishmenthurts

I also kinda like the PDA label and the NVLD things cause they feel closer? But they arent in there. I really want presentation styles. Its kinda annoying cause I think my presentation though recognizably autistic to other autistics… is very presentation different. My friends describe me as maskless…

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Jonathan Lamothe

@sonja @Ángela Stella Matutina @Actually Autistics @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama What's interesting was that my original comment was sparked by a conversation I had with my partner. We are both different flavours of neurodivergent and we've both had to learn this lesson over time.
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Poloniousmonk

@angelastella @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics

I find that so, so frustrating.

When I speak, the message is in the fucking words. Not the microcues. Not the body language. Not the tone. I'm verbal.

And yes, it's pretty useless around neurotypicals.

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Poloniousmonk

@angelastella @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics

My theory is that we evolved as a second locus of power in a tribal society. You had the leader, who maintained power through charm and violence. And you had the gender-queer medicine person who was respected as a thinker. When the leader was about to lemming the tribe off a cliff, the medicine person would intervene. And the leader knew to back down.

Just my $0.02

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@emily_rugburn @angelastella @Uair @autistics
.
that’s a tough one for me, I love the perfect word, even if no-one knows it and it’s as long as your arm. 😳😇
.
What helps keep me grounded is I know the fancier the words are, it’s often a sign of bullshit, so I try to make myself say things in plain language, if it can’t be said plainly, it’s probably not true enough.
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Poloniousmonk

@emily_rugburn @angelastella @punishmenthurts @autistics

I just got fucked by that. I asked someone if a bill had to be paid up front or could be paid in arrears. Afterward, I figured out he didn't know what "in arrears" meant. He just lied to me instead.

I blame the schools. They teach you to never admit you don't know something and always try to bullshit your way through it.

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NoBorg

@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics

Language is so ambiguous, words can have different meanings, even sentences. That's why sometimes we need further clarification.
Think about it:

"He's hot" ( mmm... he's cute? he's mad? or is it the weather? are we actually talking about temperature? ) ;)

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NoBorg

@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics

Yes, that's true too. Some people use ambiguity for different purposes, some to wake up fear and manipulate others, make them suffer; yet ambiguity is also at the basis of humor and it may be used then to make others laugh, feel better.

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Miakoda

@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics No its not. My cat doesn't actively make life harder for me and amplify my problems. My cat actually cares enough to lay on my chest like a weighted blanket. My cat doesn't leave when I don't have the energy to play. My cat doesn't call me manipulative and deceitful. My cat doesn't make promises and claims only to 180 later. My cat loves me as I am.
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Jonathan Lamothe

@sonja @Actually Autistics I don't know that I've noticed it in exactly that way, but my masking has become so deeply ingrained over the years that I seldom give people the opportunity unless I'm very close with them.

This has occasionally been to my detriment, but it has made me into a really solid independent learner when I find something I really want to sink my teeth into.

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DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)

Talking on the phone is something I've always sucked at, while I'm completely fluent when typing out text messages and do that on the reg.

Also, it's possible to manage sensory issues and the like; I used to have major issues with getting goopy stuff on my skin, so things like paint, glue, etc, for the longest time as a kid, for example, although I have since learned to manage that and it's not really an issue for me anymore, but that still takes a lot of time and effort to get to that point and sensory issues don't just go away even if they're successfully managed; they still exist.

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Jonathan Lamothe

@DFX4509B (Joshua Mason) Yeah, my biggest problem is that my mouth doesn't have a backspace key. I can draft and re-draft written correspondence before hitting send, but when I say a thing, it's just out there.

Also, I sometimes need multiple passes over a sentence to process what someone has said (or written). People get upset when I ask them to repeat certain things more than once. When it's written, I just move my eyes back to the beginning of the sentence as many times as necessary and nobody's any the wiser (except for me, I guess).

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DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)

Also, it feels kinda nice to be able to open up here or on Mastodon, while if I tried opening up similarly on Facebook or Twitter, or sadly even Bsky to some extent for that matter, I'd probably get ostracized for it.

Although I'm more of a visual type when it comes to expression anyways, as in I like to draw or paint a lot and consider myself pretty good at it.

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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

@Uair
Thank you, but I don't believe I have the spoons to read long texts (I'll try to find it in audio form).

My own experience of school, and what I've learned about them since, present a solid case against them in any case.

Fucking child prisons.
@angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics

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Ángela Stella Matutina

@Uair @Mux @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics

Hey, thank you. Back in the day I translated "The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher" for my family and friends. This essay looks like a good companion to it. I don't know which of his books I read because they were re-titled: one was something like Compulsory Miseducation. Decades ago, my now adult kids were babies.

The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher, by John Taylor Gatto

www.cantrip.org
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
.
it doesn't necessarily fit in my system, where we were here first. And so far, it seems their type show up in charge, not taking advice from anyone, but
.
if that scenario ever happened, warrior king with an Autistic prime minister or consigliere, it would suggest that when the warriors showed up, some of us foolishly thought we could keep them and use them
.
and I was fantasizing that the Neolithic people understood at least breeding if not evolution, and would know not to do that
.
😲 😂
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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

@Uair
Gave it a listen. He's correct, of course, but it's nothing I didn't already know. Funny how he mentions that schools were a Prussian institute, but not that the Prussians were inspired by the methods brahmins used to maintain the Indian caste system...
@angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics
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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

@punishmenthurts
We end up with allists in power because the ones willing to hurt others in the pursuit of power usually aren't autistic.

None of the autists I know show the slightest draw to power. The most I can say is that we're driven to find influence by a sense of injustice.

An autist will (in my limited experience) gladly give up a position of power (e.g. give a patent away or give up copyright) if it benefits the world.
@Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@emily_rugburn @Uair
.
it's what I call Allistic science. They're good at physics and stuff, but they have a disability regarding the study of humans, they have the mythical, Human Nature sitting where a whole lot of science would be most helpful. The Davids said it gently and only once in #TheDawnOfEverything , that the Turtle Islanders found the Euro invaders to lack the "actuarial," sense, that they do not see how their treatment of one another affects society and their lives, they lack a functioning naïve psychology.
#thedawnofeverything @Poloniousmonk @sonja
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Douglas Edwards

@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @Uair This is part of what I mean by saying that the #mindblindness / "theory of mind deficit" idea almost has it backwards. While #allistics do have a theory of mind, they typically let it atrophy from neglect, habitually using the automatic, intuitive mechanisms built into their #EnvironmentalYoke instead of doing any explicit theorizing. That approach may be great if all you're interested in is jockeying for position in a social hierarchy. It's not so great if you'd like to understand what kind of world your actions are building.

@autistics

#mindblindness #environmentalyoke #allistics @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @sonja

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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

@hadon
Don't know, don't care. I'm speaking in generalities anyway. Even if he is, exceptions are to be expected. One autistic trait he definitely does not exhibit is a strong sense of justice.
@punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@Uair @hadon @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
.
yeah. If I had to pick, I say he’s Allistic, but if not, what’s the difference?
.
Does that make being a billionaire Nazi an Autistic trait? If he pursues severely Allistic goals with all of his resources, does it matter if he’s masking, only pretending to be that?
.
I mean, this is personal, I have exactly this going with my ex family, they never loved me because I’m a weirdo, it was always obvious that my in laws strove to be seen as normal
and to be popular, it’s what they live for, but after they disposed of me for imaginary Allistic crimes, now they are all self diagnosed Autistics, and what’s the difference to me?
.
I mean, I hope I’m the last Autistic these heavily masking Autistics destroy.
.
A few famous people masking doesn’t mean it’s not a hyper Allistic thing to be what he is. People mask, people don’t know, one name means nothing.
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NoBorg

@punishmenthurts @Uair @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
Goiterzan, my question was mainly in response to Mux2000: "We end up with allists in power because the ones willing to hurt others in the pursuit of power usually aren't autistic. "
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NoBorg

@punishmenthurts @Uair @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics

I was just wondering because Musk has hurt a lot of people and he said he was autistic. So, we have to watch out for prejudgements and don't assume that only a certain type of person can get to high power positions or hurt others.
We all are human, autistic or not; we all are capable of good and bad :/

Nobody is better or worst than others, we are just different.

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@hadon @Uair @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
.
and I agree with Mux, usually that’s the case, aggression is more of an Allistic trait than an ND trait, I have written whole books and many blogs and a thousand toots saying that.
.
I’m saying it would be less usual for an Autistic to want that much power, but it surely happens sometimes. And again, we’re talking about types and big data, one dude doesn’t prove anything or mean anything.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@hadon @Uair @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
.
what we all CAN do or COULD do means nothing, it doesn’t discriminate, it is the absence of information, it means nothing. Real Allistics hurt way more people than real Autistics, and that any one of them COULD go the other direction means nothing, and do you prefer things that mean nothing? You want to correct me so nothing means anything for me?
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NoBorg

@punishmenthurts @Uair @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics

No, I don't want to correct you, I'm just reflecting out loud. And I wondered if there were scientific studies on the subject because I think science is more accurate than our individual perceptions.
If there are no scientific studies on the subject I would always question my own perceptions and conclusions.

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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

@punishmenthurts
This sent me down a Google Scholar rabbit hole from which I emerged with the following conclusion - the current state of research on the intersection between autism and social values, such as control, violence and the will to power is shit.
@hadon @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
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Ángela Stella Matutina

@Mux @emily_rugburn @Uair @hadon @punishmenthurts @autistics

As long as we're trading made-up statistics (and make no mistake, I respected the hell out of Ted Sturgeon), I'm partial to the one which says that 10% of people are assholes and crooks, 10% are--for all practical purposes--saints, and the remaining 80% can be convinced to swing in either way. Which means: how we organize society means something. Also (partially) explains how a well-run campaign can make fascism come back almost everywhere.

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Miakoda

The only thing I'd want unlimited power for is to use it to make sure everyone is ok, and end as much harm and suffering as I could. Ya know, outlaw bigotry, tax the rich, feed and house the poor, support the disabled... all that stuff. Power would exhaust me to death, likely literally... but it'd be worth it to do those things.
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Miakoda

@Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics ...if I had that power, I'd strongly prefer nobody knew it was me. I don't need nor want my name on that stuff, I just want people to be ok. Seeing people happy and safe would be all I want out of it.

This topic makes me tear up. We have all the resources for everyone to be ok, and we, as a species, just don't do it for some reason.

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Ángela Stella Matutina

@hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics

One thing is the desire to do things like these, and quite another the drive to rule over others, even to achieve these goals. Making tools out of my fellow humans it's not something I'm skilled to do. Let them find their own way, I have quite enough bossing myself.

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Ari "Second Breakfast" Jackson

@hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics I feel exactly the same way. I fantasize about being a secret billionaire who just gives their money to projects everywhere without their name on it. Giving neighbors money to fix their fence. Giving people money to fix their cars. Giving people money to get out of debt. Just giving so that we can all do better. I wouldn't want my name on it at all.
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@Miakoda @Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Ari "Second Breakfast" Jackson @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

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NoBorg

@Uair @emily_rugburn @Mux @punishmenthurts @angelastella @autistics

Poloniosmonk, you can get away from your grandfather, you can get away from your family, but you can't get away from yourself. You're stuck having to live with yourself 24 hours a day, 7 days a week! So, you better make of him a great person to share life with ;)

@Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @sonja

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Energetic Nova

@angelastella @hadon @Uair @Mux @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics

Because I have PDA… I have some diff feelings… since my autism causes health issues…

Im in a space of willing to try anything. CBT/DBT failed. The focus on mindfulness, the part of both of those that made it fail makes me know ACT also wont work. Anything focusing on thought control is a failure. I really need something else. Its so stupid how I can’t find something to actually help me gain a rudder.

@Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @NoBorg @sonja

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Dziadek

@Mux @punishmenthurts @hadon @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics

Reminds me of something Douglas Adams wrote: It is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

@Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @NoBorg @sonja

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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

@Uair
That's how democracies should work. With lots to choose temporary position, not with elections. What we have now is a mockery of the term.
@DziadekMick @punishmenthurts @hadon @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
@Jonathan Lamothe @Ángela Stella Matutina @Dziadek @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @NoBorg @sonja

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Dziadek

@hadon @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics

Think it’s more the belief that it’s not normal to want to have power and control. That sort of desire is a dark side of our selves. And it’s not an original Adams thought.

Dear old Kurt was there before him:
"There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don’t know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president."

@Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @NoBorg @sonja

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NoBorg

@DziadekMick @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics

There's hierarchy in animal groups, so yearning for leadership is a natural trait. But natural leadership should be won in a fair way, you have to prove that you are a leader, not impose it by force. So what I consider abnormal is people who lie, cheat or kill to get to power.
A real leader is respected, not feared.

@Ángela Stella Matutina @Dziadek @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @sonja

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cybervegan

@hadon @DziadekMick @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics Only SOME animal groups - most get along without actual leaders, using various forms and combinations of swarming, consensus and signalling to direct their group behaviour. The human perceived group behaviour is often emergent and not dictated but any subgroup or individual.
@Ángela Stella Matutina @Dziadek @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @NoBorg @sonja

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@hadon @DziadekMick @Mux @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
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That Good Leader fantasy that never actually happens is forever pushed by the majority to justify the filthy swine we do get and it’s not better in the primate groups, just because some primates have a dictator doesn’t somehow make that a good thing.
@Ángela Stella Matutina @Dziadek @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @NoBorg @sonja

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Dziadek

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@punishmenthurts @angelastella @cybervegan @hadon @Mux @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics

In which case, I’ll dust this one off.

@Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @cybervegan @NoBorg @sonja

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Dziadek

@hadon @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics

Our original society had no leaders. An elder, yes, but decision-making was done by a group, often advised by a shaman (or similar). I believe leaders came into being when *some fool* decided to claim a piece of land and fight for it.

And to quote somebody: You’re not a leader without followers.

@Ángela Stella Matutina @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @NoBorg @sonja
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

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oh, boy. 😀
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OK, nobody reads blogs, so I’ll try to just say it.
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Some anthropologists have stories about how when an egalitarian group gets a “big man,” starting to push his weight around, how they arrange an accident for him and carry on with their lives. One gets the impression they know they have to nip that shit in the bud.
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The scientists don’t think humans have alphas, I think they have traced alpha family genes in chimps and find no such genetics in humans. (I’ve forgotten where I got that, it may need some citation.)
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But to my mind, they are all alpha aggressive, and what they are really seeing is no FEW alphas among humans, and ALL alphas - so no genetic difference exists to find. My idea is that at some point in our prehistory, somewhere in the near east, the alphas had it all their way, eliminated the beta through zeta types’or at least their breeding, and most of humankind are now the alphas’ children.
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They all look like alphas because they all think they can tell one another what to do, and they all look like alphas because they hate being told what to do. Freedom! is the cry of the alpha in a world with no-one taking their orders. They burn the books and don’t need to learn because the alpha is the teacher, they tell you what you need to know.
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And my thing, spanking:
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you hit a natural born subject, a zeta, you get obedience, a passive response. You “spank,” a natural born alpha, that’s fight training and alpha epigenetics.
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So Allism is alphaism, twisted out of context. And spanking doesn’t deter them.
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I wouldn’t necessarily bet the farm, but it works pretty good.
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Oh - that happened with the orangutans, every one is a dormant alpha, and when an alpha dies, someone else grows the big face and such. Sapolsky told us this after I’d guessed it about people.
💜
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and evolution works at whatever speed the environment changes or you get unselected.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

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more theories and “just so,” evidence:
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Everyone complains about the beta through zetas, the problem is the sheeple - this betrays the complainer’s neurology, they are not with the followers, they think following is stupid. Which makes the speaker alpha-compatible, they think everyone should be an alpha, thinking for themselves. Counterintuitive, maybe, divergent, maybe.
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But there aren’t followers, they are all “leading,” each other.
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You see a million people going the same direction, who’s to say it’s one leader and a million followers and not a million leaders who only know one way to go and no followers?
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Ask them! See how many call themselves followers.
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/2

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@Uair @DziadekMick @hadon @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
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for the ND - isn’t that what it feels like, the so called DEP and whatnot, like every bloody one of them seems to automatically assume they’re your boss, every one has the god given right to tell us how we’re supposed to be about everything? 💜💜💜😳
@Ángela Stella Matutina @Dziadek @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @NoBorg @sonja

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

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N., I’ll offer a weakness: you’d think the rut makes every deer and elk an alpha too, the whole herd, children of alphas but they don’t sem to be in quite our state of chaos because of it, not sure what the difference would be . . . I mean, maybe they know it? They don’t assume each other are betas, etc., like humans do?
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extremely speculative, of coarse. 💜
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EDIT TO ADD: I know there are many sorts of breeding controls, some animals get bred by multiple males and actively choose sperm, rejecting some and keeping others, I don’t know this about particular higher mammals, but any species with both alphas and more passive sorts must have something like that going on. With primates it’s usually just, “cheating,” on the alphas.
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That’s part of my idea, that somehow, somewhere, some human alpha defeated all those sorts of checks and balances. 💜
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Mux2000 (anhydrous)

@punishmenthurts
You won't find any scientific evidence because the whole alpha/beta thing is unscientific garbage based on a debunked study in captive wolf populations that didn't even hold for wild ones.
@Uair @DziadekMick @hadon @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
@Jonathan Lamothe @Ángela Stella Matutina @Dziadek @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama @NoBorg @sonja

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@Uair @DziadekMick @hadon @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
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Something’s bothering, I overreached, orangutans are like that, any one can become the alpha - but I sure don’t know that they were ever a familial alpha sort, like other species, I can’t say that they ever had genetic alphas and genetic others and that that’s some normal stage, I don’t know that orangutans haven’t been this way since they became orangutans, do I?
😇
@Ángela Stella Matutina @Dziadek @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @NoBorg @sonja

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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama

@Mux @Uair @DziadekMick @hadon @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
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if that’s true about ungulates and primates too, no alphas anywhere, then the whole thing is just a projection from Allistic humans and it’s still my larger point: Allism is alpha neurology, it would just be the only such then. 💜
@Ángela Stella Matutina @Dziadek @Poloniousmonk @Actually Autistics @Mux2000 (anhydrous) @NoBorg @sonja

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