mastodon - Link to source

The journey of tech empowerment and liberation from tech bros can be a long, bumpy road.

The biggest tech regret of my adult life is that I didn't use a custom domain name as my main email address, so that when things invariably go south, I can simply hop to a new email provider.

The hundred or so email aliases I made with #Proton are a real headache right now. Time to clean up my mess.

What am I talking about? This ICYMI: 404media.co/manifestos-fear-an…

#NoAI #enshittification #ProtonMail

Manifestos, Fear, and ‘Loser Thinking’: Inside Proton’s AI Reckoning

Proton CEO Andy Yen projects a calm persona and rails against Big Tech and critiques AI. Internally, he is pushing engineers to build Proton with AI, even when they have security concerns.
Joseph Cox (404 Media)
#proton #protonmail #noAI #enshittification
in reply to ticho

mastodon - Link to source

Shanie MyrsTear

@ticho The problem becomes "who isn't"?

Like, I know Andy Yen is leaning heavily into AI Psychosis which will inherently and ironically make the thing Proton exists on: security, less secure. And WHEN they have an incident due to this, Proton is gone. Over. Done. Andy is an idiot in a suit and it's obvious.

But is there another option? Ironically, handling your own e-mail server is extremely difficult due to the political safety layer and insecure for nearly everyone. What's better?

@ticho
in reply to Fairness4All

mastodon - Link to source

econads

@closeted_unionist
I'm kind of between proton and tuta right now. Tuta is useable, but you need to pay a couple Euros month for anything about the very basics (like search!) google etc has really conditioned us (me) to expect things for free, backed by surveillance.

I actually started to move because there's an annoying bug they don't care to fix, ironically.

And I can 95% recommend addy.io if you're lazy to run your own domain stuff.

@_elena

@Elena Rossini 🌈 @Fairness4All
in reply to Sebastian

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@sebastian so I read reports by people who used a free account for a month and then did not pay that aliases ALLEGEDLY still work, even when plans expire. Still, I want to create a personal system where I do not rely on one big company for such a key feature.

I'm happy I never used ProtonDrive and ProtonPass, that's for sure.

@Sebastian
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@sebastian Sebastian, sorry I have an important addendum. People report that aliases created inside ProtonMail still work (after the end of a subscription), whereas those created directly inside ProtonPass are immediately disabled. So please beware. The discussion is here: reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/commen…
@Sebastian
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

gotosocial - Link to source

Leonieke Aalders

I'm still cleaning up all my proton stuff and I fear the transfer a bit, but in the coming months I'll move over to dutch provider @soverin keeping my own domain(s), but only after total clean-up of all aliases and gmail-remnants.

I never realised I had to many accounts and subscriptions: I'm on a digital cleanse it seems :maria_tsom:

@Soverin
in reply to Paul - Antifa. LGBTQ+ safe.

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@paulk totally understand, ESPECIALLY for something as sensitive as passwords. They've lost my trust... the only way forward for them is to fire Andy Yen AND their AI-pilled CTO. This is catastrophic for their image and reputation, I don't see any other way to recover
@Paul - Antifa. LGBTQ+ safe.
in reply to Paul - Antifa. LGBTQ+ safe.

mastodon - Link to source

Sean

@paulk I strongly recommend not tying your password manager to anything else. It doesn't have to be an offline password manager but it should be separate from your email, office suite, etc service. I have read horror stories of people being locked out of their Google, Apple, etc accounts for random (or legitimate) reasons. If this account also houses your passwords then you're really out of luck.

I use a mix of KeePassXC and a cloud-based password manager service.

@_elena

@Elena Rossini 🌈 @Paul - Antifa. LGBTQ+ safe.
This entry was edited (Friday, October 30, 2026, 5:19 PM)
in reply to Angel

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@ngel I'm waiting to see how Proton reacts to this catastrophic, reputation-destroying story. If Yen and the AI-pilled CTO step down, I may consider sticking around. My unlimited plan renews in May.

For the time being I am changing my "from" email address and using a custom domain name to make the transition easier... I'm also looking at Tuta (where I already have an account)

@Angel
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Andrea

Oh wow, just in time, I was about to switch everything over to a Proton email these next few days, that was a close one😅

I have a few questions about the custom domain thing since I'm pretty new to this. How does it work if I need to switch providers using my custom domain email? If I were to switch, does it also move all my saved emails/folders/labels over to the new provider? What providers would you recommend?

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Bill

I bought a domain many years ago. I have moved it once, now on Migadu. I didn't see any reference to AI just now. Their privacy policy seems quite robust. Somewhere I thought I saw them claim to be built with 100 percent open source, but couldn't find it with a quick search.

They don't charge enough for me to be a paid spokesperson. 😀

A personal domain plus paid mail hosting is cheaper than a blue check mark from the dead bird.

in reply to Michael Santaly

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@wonkothesane @gilraen79 what makes me really nervous about Proton is (1) how more importance is given to LLMs' coding vs. humans when it comes to security (2) the toxic culture created by AI-pilled management.

It's not just a blanket rejection of AI, it's more nuanced than that. I would trust a real life engineer with qualms and a desire to be prudent over management that pushes speed and genAI code.

I think alternatives to Proton may have better corporate culture... the bar is pretty low

@Michael Santaly @Elisabetta
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Michael Santaly

@gilraen79 Oh, I agree with that. I’m not too familiar with what’s happening at Tuta. AI is a red flag when it comes to security, but not a deal breaker as I understand this is where tech is going

But at the same time I’m feeling it was always foolish to think of e-mail as something that can be really secure and I might look into Fast Mail

@Elisabetta
in reply to Michael Santaly

mastodon - Link to source

Elisabetta

@wonkothesane I have seen their replies and people's reactions to them, but I honestly want to believe they will listen to their customers' concerns and rethink about using AI for developing their services. I have always seen them listening to people, while Proton has always been shady to me, so I hope that was just a misstep. We will see in the next months, I suppose.
@Michael Santaly
in reply to Elisabetta

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@gilraen79 @wonkothesane as far as I can tell, Tuta's company culture appears to be healthier than Proton's. I already have a Tuta (free) account and I have made my custom domain the default in Proton. Slowly preparing for a possible switch... but TBH if Yen and the AI-pilled CTO step down I may stick around. Reading between the lines it seems that Proton devs and engineers put an emphasis on human code, slowness, and prudence
@Michael Santaly @Elisabetta
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Vincent B. 🌱

it simply takes consistency and effort to replace all e-mail adresses for all services by new ones. I did it in a few days, while traveling, four years ago. Only ONE site didn’t let me change the attached email address. Now they all point to aliases on my own domain, with emails hosted by Migadu (previously Gandi).

You can do it, too, if you choose to move over.

This entry was edited (Friday, October 30, 2026, 10:52 AM)
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Svavar the Neurozesty

I’ve had a custom domain for my main email since 2004 with unique email addresses for every single website without fail.

It removes a huge amount of spam and fraudulent emails and shows exactly who’s been breached.

I can’t imagine doing email any other way and being able to transparently switch providers has been huge.

It’s never too late. I hope you find a domain you like and can live with.

in reply to Svavar the Neurozesty

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@svavar thank you Svavar. I've had a custom domain (for my website) for 15 years. I regret not using it as my default email address, sigh. It's already connected to Proton, so I set it as my default mailing address and created a bunch of aliases (for shopping, newsletters, etc.) as I get ready - at a slow pace - to possibly make a switch... number one lesson to impart to my 5-year-old (I bought her a domain name when she was a month old)
@Svavar the Neurozesty
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

I'm devastated to hear that #Proton 's CEO and CTO are treating their engineers in a terrible way, blindly trusting LLMs and creating a toxic culture where speed and growth trump security.

I'm not ready to make a radical switch yet but some little actions I implemented today could be useful for others, too:
1) I made my custom domain the DEFAULT email address in ProtonMail
2) I created aliases w my custom domain for shopping, newsletters, admin, etc.

Hoping this will make a transition smoother

#proton
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

My new approach vis-à-vis transitioning away from #Proton (in a slow way) - cont':

For every new email that comes in that uses one of my Proton email addresses (or aliases), I am making changes, updating the email address for that account (if it's shopping/newsletter/admin) or I am notifying the sender that going forward my default email address will be the one associated to my domain name.

It's a pain, but it's long overdue.

#proton
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Pierre Pebble

As a protocol, Email is painfully outdated. It shouldn't be so hard to switch service provider, or to protect ourselves from spams and leaked addresses... Sure we can buy a custom domain and set aliases, but that's beyond the average user 🥲

On that note, members of my family were proudly moving from Google to Proton 😭

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Leo Ré Jorge

do you have any links that could work as a gateway to figuring out how to acquire and set up a custom email domain? I've been using the same Gmail address for 20 years and it's the major thing I haven't degoogled yet. I don't want to have to change it more than once, and by the looks of things I won't ever be able to trust any email provider.
in reply to Space Catitude 🚀

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@TerryHancock I'm just using my domain name as my default email address so I can freely switch providers in just a few clicks (and DNS changes). I am not self-hosting my email, I heard it's like a cartel and I don't want to worry about deliverability rates, etc. Just using my custom domain so I can hop between different providers, that's all
@Space Catitude 🚀
in reply to Mr.Brisby

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@BroBot90001 @tobias @TerryHancock @doncow sadly I think that AI code is pretty much everywhere now (look at Linux). My main problem with Proton is how the C-suite has created a toxic company culture, where legitimate concerns by software engineers are not acknowledged... on the contrary, there is bullying and name calling coming from the CEO. Unacceptable. I do not trust Proton anymore because they give more importance to AI than careful, handwritten code and want speed and scale at all costs
@Space Catitude 🚀 @Mr.Brisby @mailcow ✅ @Tobias Eigen
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Mr.Brisby

@tobias @TerryHancock @doncow

With the most recent development of the Claude SSH backdoor it’s only a matter of time before those that are genuinely serious about security and privacy to make a stand.

We see almost daily flaws in Ai code being exposed and the announcements like those from Tuta are red flags that will lead to the work environments like that at proton as you mentioned.

#privacy #proton #tuta

#privacy #proton #tuta @Space Catitude 🚀 @mailcow ✅ @Tobias Eigen
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Ryan Sechrest

These changes now will save you a lot of time later. This situation is such a conundrum. My immediate reaction is to leave, because I don't want to indirectly support a company with a CEO that treats its employees this way and ignores the security concerns from the very engineers that built its products. But a company is also so much more than just its CEO, and do you punish the team and abandon the arguably good tools by leaving, when it's really the CEO that needs to go?
in reply to Ryan Sechrest

mastodon - Link to source

Scornucopia: Disdain of Plenty

@ryse This is kind of where I am. The spoke in the wheel is AI though. If it weren't for that, hanging around until new leadership arrives would be doable. I haven't pulled the trigger just yet, but I'm definitely doing my research and following threads like this. Overall it's such a time and energy suck! I think I want my AOL account back. Simpler times!
@_elena
@Elena Rossini 🌈 @Ryan Sechrest
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Tobias Eigen

awesome! This sounds like a solid approach. I moved from my Gmail.com email to self hosted on my own domain using mailcow last year and it took about two months before everything flowed through mailcow. It’s a project but very feasible and fully worth it!

Still have the gmail for the occasional email that still comes in and to use Google tools like Remote Desktop connection. But everything’s that matters I moved to my digitally sovereign tech stack.

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Ærion

HO.LY. F.U.C.K.

Thanks for posting that link. I had absolutely no idea! I've been with #Proton for many years, 𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘪𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘺 because I want to get away from Big Tech, not to get dragged back in via the backdoor.

What a arrogant, dismissive prick, this guy. I feel sorry for the employees, but I'm gonna have to look for an alternative. It really sucks, as Proton Meet and SimpleLogin are really good products. What a nightmare! 😱

#proton
This entry was edited (Friday, October 30, 2026, 3:16 PM)
in reply to Ærion

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@aerion it's a real nightmare, indeed. I moved to Proton 6 years ago in an effort to DeGooglify. This development has been really upsetting.

Honestly if they get rid of their CEO and the CTO I may stick around... it seems that engineers have their heart in the right place, putting an emphasis on hand-written code and caution.

Otherwise my paid plan lasts for another 6 months and I will slowly transition away from it.

@Ærion
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Ærion

I think that if you cancel before the end of your plan, you can get a pro rata refund.

But I also thought that closing my accent in a knee-jerk reaction is probably a bit premature, in case there's such a backlash that they might change course. Unlikely, by the look of things, but user power can affect change.

Still, this does 𝘯𝘰𝘵 look good…

in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

mastodon - Link to source

Sean

I've kept my SimpleLogin account separate from my Proton account for this possibility. Were you using the built-in alias functionality or a separate alias solution? I haven't tried to migrate, yet, but I'm hoping the separation does still exist for and I can just point my aliased addresses at a new mailbox.

I'm also probably going to look into a different email alias provider, because SimpleLogin is owned by Proton.

If/when I do migrate off of Proton, I'll likely use this as an opportunity to use my own registered domain, too. I still want to use a generalized alias email domain but having a custom domain for my personal email would be good.

#Proton #ProtonAG #AndyYen #SimpleLogin #AISlop #Privacy #Security

#privacy #proton #security #aislop #andyyen #protonag #simplelogin
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

snac - Link to source

ティージェーグレェ

I am, almost surprised to read that you, on your self hosting journey, were not also self hosting email!

Then again, I probably began on the self hosting journey so long ago that it was more of a collaborative hosting (because computer resources were scarce and expensive and so BBSes and such were doing out best to share them with others) era (my first Internet accessible email address was UUCP, not SMTP; and I had other email systems in use before that too!)? So the bygone days of when sendmail had "wiz" and spam was not yet a reality? I miss.

At some point, I had been getting paid to run mailservers for employers for so long, I had more or less given up on it for personal use and let others with their free tiers handle that sort of thing.

Distressingly, it seems as if the free tiers of companies, can no longer be trusted as most have fallen prey to the realms of surveillance capitalism, so I too am in the process of going back to some sort of self hosted paradigm, for email of all things!?

I should have hoped by 2026, we would have all long since migrated to realtime end-to-end encrypted communications systems with Perfect Forward Secrecy and naturally, libre/free open source software implementations such as SILC; yet it seems as if the popularity of that fell by the wayside as the hegemonic powers that be foisted their bassackwardsness on the world? I know better is possible, since I already was using better contentedly, long ago.

These days? The "S" in SMTP, no longer seems meaningful; such a pity.

I am certain that you can take your self hosting lessons to the realms of email and be OK with it. Administering MTAs (Mail Transfer Agents) isn't the worst thing in the world; personally I prefer Postfix to sendmail; yet qmail presumably still functions? There are also OpenSMTPD from the OpenBSD developers now, and newer "gee-whiz" sorts of all-in-one thingamajiggers e.g. xmox.nl and stalw.art (the latter of which I am least familiar with and also seems to perhaps utilize LLMs to some degree?) which maybe also include calendaring and IMAP, etc. support?

Good luck on your continuing journey! Even as I, probably need to go back to some areas with which I was once all too well versed and apparently have let lapse in the intermediary years hoping that we may have moved on from such things, like the joke:

"Could you fax over a copy?"
"No, I can't fax because of where I live."
"Where do you live?"
"The 21st century."

To me at least? A good new technology, does not cling to the past.

So, any "web" service, still requesting an email address? IMHO, is not a good one.

SILC, did not require an email address.

Contrast with, e.g. Signal, which requires a phone number?

Even worse. At least email addresses (e.g. SMTP) have a multiplicity of libre/free open source implementations and that will presumably, always be true. Attempting to get phone numbers (sure there are projects such as OpenBTS, Asterisk, which provide VoIP functionality, yet they are the minority; the telephony realms are predominantly still promulgated by an entrenched, convicted monopoly). Based on that alone Signal use should be discouraged. Alas, there are many other good reasons to discourage usage of Signal.

Stalwart Mail & Collaboration Server

Open-source mail and collaboration server with JMAP, IMAP4, POP3, SMTP, CalDAV, CardDAV and WebDAV support. Written in Rust, designed to be secure, scalable, and easy to operate.
Stalwart
in reply to Elena Rossini 🌈

snac - Link to source

ティージェーグレェ

I have faith in you! Admittedly, I know you already are doing a lot too. If and when you embark on that journey? My guess is: you will share your experiences, and others will learn a lot in the process and maybe I am overly optimistic? I suspect that it may inspire more to free themselves from the paid providers too.

No rush though; as I wrote previously; I am not presently being paid to administer others' systems and I don't have any gear racked anywhere of my own as well. Just because I have done such things in the past, doesn't mean that I am claiming it is easy for others or even myself at the present moment. I know it can be done, having done so repeatedly, and am confident that it is not beyond your, nor many others' skills.

in reply to ティージェーグレェ

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Jonathan Lamothe

@ティージェーグレェ FWIW, I used to host my own email for years. I gave up for exactly the reasons @Elena Rossini 🌈 described. Besides, I can move mountains to secure my own email, but at the end of the day if the person at the other end of the communication is using Gmail, what's the point?
@Elena Rossini 🌈 @ティージェーグレェ
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe

snac - Link to source

ティージェーグレェ

Reasonable. I always considered email intractably insecure, which is part of why I gave up on it for personal stuff.

Similarly, I do not use fax machines personally, even though I have been paid to administer fax to SMTP gateways and such in the past.

Folks want to pay me to administer their mail servers? OK, I will accept their money.

Yet it wasn't moving the needle forward for me, or my users.

Still, I'll take SMTP over things with phone numbers at least?

I don't think personally, it will be too much effort to get back into administering MTAs; for me finding reasonable hosting (not a price issue; more that I think VMs are for development, not prod) is a bigger challenge; yet I know some options there too. It's more of a, "I haven't budgeted for this and I don't feel an urgency to rush into it" either.

in reply to ティージェーグレェ

mastodon - Link to source

Elena Rossini 🌈

@teajaygrey infinite respect for people who self-host their own email but I have zero interest in doing that. I'd rather associate my custom domain to a secure, encrypted email service and not worry about anything.

I self-host a lot of things but for example I decided to use #MagicPages for my Ghost blog and I am so grateful for Jannis' work. I don't have to stress about maintenance etc.

#magicpages @ティージェーグレェ

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