Pretty sure Rogers keeps disconnecting my internet in the middle of the night without notice to do some kind of maintenance hoping that nobody will notice.
I keep having to reboot the modem every morning for the past few days. This time I was awake when it went down.
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I can't draw analogies like this. When I learned to program, it was by reading hundreds of printed man pages for TI-BASIC and MS-DOS. I have little hope that a 5yr old from today would do the same. I think if I didn't know how to program and had to learn that way today, I might not.
The old ways are not the new ways, and they aren't even that sacred. They are just barely the known.
Went to a large grocery store and waitied in the parking lot with a book for a few hours hoping to pick up an Instacart order. Didn't get one, but as I tried to start the car to go home, I found that I'd left the lights on and the battery's dead.
Waiting on my father to show up with jumper cables, but at least I'm not so upset about not getting an order. Would've sucked to find the battery dead when I tried to deliver it...
"It does not appear that he (Edgar Allan Poe) ever wrote or spoke of it, nor is there any evidence that he even noticed it. And yet that house, to the two persons in possession of certain information, equals or outranks in horror the wildest phantasy of the genius who so often passed it unknowingly, and stands starkly leering as a symbol of all that is unutterably hideous."
โ H.P. Lovecraft: Necronomicon, p. 233
This is just Lovecraft's not-so-subtle way of saying "I'm a better horror writer than Edar Allan Poe".
What a pompous ass.
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Why I stopped ordering food delivery:
Modest Meal..... $14.99
Drink.... $3.43
"I will enjoy the Modest Meal and a drink." ๐
Bill:
Modest Meal $14.99
Drink. $3.43
Tax $2.80
Service Fee $5.35
Fee ... $2.80
Area Charge ... $6.90
Delivery ... $4.80
Just Go With It Fee $3.04
Movement Charge? ...$2.94
Delivery Fee... $2.80
Snakes ..$2.34
Vendor Notion $2.80
Just Because Fee $4.81
Ghost Removal $6.03
Vibes ... $1.03
Fee Tax $6.30
Total: 65.56
Tax Again For Some Reason: 11.62
True Total: 77.19 ๐ฒ
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@mvilain We still do that now, and it's not because of the fees. I'm not comfortable with a random stranger having access to my food. Yes, I know the folks at the restaurant have access to my food, but that's gonna happen regardless. And at least they're employed by the restaurant, not just some rando who's not trained to handle food and customers.
I kind of stole this joke from someone who posted it as an image without a description, but I changed it up.
I *would* have just boosted that post, but the image wasn't described and as I started to write alt text I thought of some changes to make... so the moral is if you wanna get boosted include the alt text!
yeah by the time i finish preparing the alt text it becomes infinitely easier to just post that instead
saves everyone's bandwidth too
LLMs are not intelligent but they ARE good for spouting extruded text that mimics the zeitgeist of their training data and if that training data includes the overflowing sewer that is the unfiltered internet you're going to get gaslighting, lies, conspiracy theories, and malice. Guardrails only prevent some of it from spilling over.
Humans base their norms on their peers' opinions, so LLMs potentially normalize all sorts of horrors in discourseโprobably including ones we haven't glimpsed yet.
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To be clear, that point about LLMs is a criticism of the training inputs. Which as far as I can see are promiscuously hoovered off the public internet by bots (like the ones perpetually DoS'ing the server my blog runs on this year) with zero thought given to curating the data for accuracy or appropriateness.
They generate perfect "answer shaped objects" โฆ from a foul-minded misogynist white supremacist bigot oozing malice against everyone who's not like him.
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LLMs are the shitbrained version of the ML models that had been accelerating (and transforming entire research areas and industries for the better) until LLMs took up all the oxygen.
To your point, those ML models were built slowly and deliberately using vetted information, which is why they're truly miraculous.
Only this era's humanity would throw away actually revolutionary technology to invest in the image of revolutionary technology instead.
But it's not a pipe, never will be
@johnzajac
> "Only this era's humanity would throw away actually revolutionary technology to invest in the image of revolutionary technology instead."
I disagree. The greater mass of humanity has *always* made stupid choices and the greater number of leaders have *always* been lesser people.
And this has been true for all of human history: A few leaders who are capable and decent human beings and orders of magnitude more who's only real talent is remorseless backstabbing.
@johnzajac
Instead of the 'Great Man' theory of history, let me introduce you to the 'Unintended Side Effect' theory of history.
ETA: On a re-read I realized I failed to properly tie this in with what you are saying. Sorry about that. By the above I mean humans have historically made EXACTLY the kinds of mistakes you describe (along with many other kinds of mistakes), both en-mass and through the individual choices of our leaders.
But then history has taught me only anthroskepicism.
Some AI lobbying takes the form of cheating out wins in competitions.
fortune.com/2025/01/21/eye-on-โฆ
decrypt.co/302691/did-openai-cโฆ
the-decoder.com/openai-claims-โฆ
theatlantic.com/technology/arcโฆ
techrepublic.com/article/news-โฆ
Terence Tao, the worldโs greatest living mathematician, has a vision for AI.Matteo Wong (The Atlantic)
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@Charlie Stross A million times this.
Are there very narrow areas where AI can be useful? Probably, but easily 99.9% of the stuff it's being shoehorned into, AI ought never to be trusted with.
I think itโs dope af that plants take air and turn it into solid material
why arenโt more people awestruck that this shit happens all the time?
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It's any unnamed vegetable oil that you would use to make a salad dressing; the key characteristic is that it doesn't have much flavor. It's often sold as a mix of whatever's reasonably cheap: soybean, canola, peanut, and in some cases, cottonseed.
You can substitute whatever you like, especially if you think the recipe would improve with avocado or olive oil.
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I'm sure it's a product of its time, but good God there are some racist passages in this book.
(comment on Necronomicon)
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Bank machines have business hours now? How is that a thing?
Are the machines that are replacing us demanding better working conditions now? ๐
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๐ I live next door to 18 chickens now. Therefore, be aware that a Chicken Report could happen at any time during Dubious Goals Committee. ๐
Also simf. Simf can happen at any time during DGC. ๐น ๐ต
Dubious Goals Committee airs EVERY single day at 19:30 UTC! ๐ข That's:
3:30 pm Eastern (North America)
2:30 pm Central
12:30 pm Pacific
21:30 St. Pauli (Hamburg) โ ๏ธ
16:30 Tierra del Fuego (ARG)
#radio, #anonradio, #sdf, #synth, #tob, #livestream,
Listen here: anonradio.net/
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someone I knew lived on Anguilla and was a computer consultant. Occasionally her conference calls would be interrupted by the goats next door sticking their heads in the window.
Now she lives in South Carolina, where I assume the same thing happens.
I need to request that *all* programmers remember that some of us are visually impaired and need to be able to edit the actual tar out of the font sizes for your menus, main bodies of your programs, etc. We need font resizing options, bolding options, color options, and font type options. For everything. If it's text, it needs to be able to be redone by the user. Also, that needs to be on a "global" and then a "per pane" basis, including the main area a person is working in.
Complaint trigger: All these M'Fkn' "Media Players" that are written for dinky little smart phones that no one over the age of 45 or 50 can even read hardly at all. I don't care that most of the people who download these things are around 12 to 25 years old. Some of us need to use these things in order to start or operate businesses and are *real grown ups.* We need these things but when we can't read them, they're useless to us.
Please fix this in every application on this planet. Thanks.
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Public service announcement.
(Created by bsky.app/profile/campfireharveโฆ )
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Everything after the "?" symbol can be removed without issue
Uhhhh not really
That also has stuff like timestamps. And in some links, such as on youtube.com/watch?v=videocode, the actually important part of the link is also after the ? (as opposed to on youtu.be/videocode).
?, though I haven't seen that in the wild.
@Jonathan Lamothe @Thomas Fuglseth @๐ณ๏ธโ๐๐๐ง๐ทLuana๐ง๐ท๐๐ณ๏ธโ๐ Some sites like fb, reddit and stackoverflow produce special share links that aren't just a link to the article, the link is unique to the person sharing it.
When I get a link like that, I'll look up the canonical URL before sharing it further. It's not only a privacy issue, it's a special case of the URL shortener issue and messes up our collective internet heritage, as it is very unlikely that URL will be resolvable ten years from now, and the internet archives and national libraries out there won't know that personalized URL.
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playlist also. So e.g. how would one clean up this link?
youtube.com/watch?v=IsiKUsrqFkโฆ
So much stuff here, but all of it is necessary. v indicates which video it is, list indicates which playlist it is, t indicates the timestamp. Granted, this isn't a youtu.be link, but only because that one already removes playlist, so it's not useful for sharing videos with their context intact.
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Auรerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.www.youtube.com
@Uglesett@snabelen.no @luana@wetdry.world no, as a matter of fact taking youtube.com/watch?v=IsiKUsrqFkโฆ and cutting off everything after ? - that is v=IsiKUsrqFkc&list=PLvoAL-KSZ32dRMGLza8Dw4xZK6_1ItjNr&t=52 - will not show the intended video - youtube.com/watch is not a video URL. Time is also important - I might be linking to a specific point in a 4h video, for example.
Those 4 are safe to cut, yeah, but "just cut off everything after ?" is straight up misinfo - that's how you end up with people sharing broken links
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Auรerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.www.youtube.com
v doesn't have to be the first parameter + again, you stil have time and playlist. Like I said, time is important - maybe you're linking to a specific point in a 4h video essay, for example. Playlist is important if you're , say, sharing a music video from a soundtrack or album split into individual tracks per video rather than a single video for the whole thing.
So - again - you can't blindly remove things - know what is safe to remove and use common sense. Sometimes it's fine to omit both time and playlist (sometimes even desirable), often not.
@sorcery Yeah, the last sentence is true except in the many cases when it's not. ๐
But everything before that is solid advice.
For the Androids amongst us:
f-droid.org/packages/me.zhanghโฆ
f-droid.org/packages/com.trianโฆ
Remove tracking information before sharing linksf-droid.org
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Hey #Fediverse, I already made this post but since I migrated to here it's gone.
I have to move soon and don't have the cash for the Deposit. I must get a total of 1500โฌ till the 15/16th of this month.
Every Euro helps! I don't wanna be homeless, I have a Job but my Employer can't give me a Wage advance and I have no idea who to ask anymore.
Thanks to anyone who helps me โโ
Ko-Fi.com/bigbird1
Goal Info:
โโโโโโโโโโโโโ 17%
#aid #mutualaid #urgent #begpost #homeless #soonhomeless #help #beg #kofi
Info: I will leave the Fedi for some time. I am not feeling that good atm. Thanks to anyone who supported me โค
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Our brakes sound really terrible. Our emergency fund is tapped out.
Fuck.
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@Kevin Davy I'm pretty sure they're shot. I've been neglecting it for a while (equal parts lack of funds and lack of spoons).
Already working on a contingency plan. If need be, we can lean on family for help. I just hate doing that because I know things are tight for them too.
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@Shae Erisson It's a thing my doctor's been keeping an eye on for a while now. My heart rate will occasionally just spike for no apparent reason. I'm told it's "an electrical issue, not a plumbing issue" which is apparently far less serious.
At present, it's nothing more than a nuisance. I'm wearing the monitor for now to see of they can actually catch it happening to better diagnose, but in general, it doesn't affect my day-to-day.
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like this
โ๐ซโโ๐ฆโโ๐ทโโ๐ฆโโ๐ญ๐๐ผ๐งถ๐ณ๏ธ๐, Meercat โ โจ, Kevin Davy and Aaron like this.
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Before his bid to become mayor, Zohran Mamdani made music as Mr. Cardamom โ and his old videos are going viral.Andre Gee (Rolling Stone)
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@Lockpick Extreme Maybe I'll try to learn again, though I should probably wait until I'm employed again to buy anything as frivolous as a pick kit.
I still remember the time my cousin and I tried to make and use a bump key when he locked himself out of a room. We never got it to work. I eventually left him with a "welp, you're on your own." ๐
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This week a โlife-changingโ breakthrough in gene therapy has given people born with genetic hearing loss potential for recovering some of their hearing.
Also Britainโs Ash trees are becoming resistant to Ash die back.
Also Ireland has gone COAL FREE #goodNews
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> But I *like* programming. I *like* writing. I like making things and then being able to sit back and look at them and think, holy fuck, I made that.
Yes, this, all of this. Too many quotes to pull. Thank you @eevee eev.ee/blog/2025/07/03/the-risโฆ
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Whenever I mention that boycotting is a privilege, I inevitably get people trying to explain how wrong I am.
How โeasyโ it is to find alternatives.
How โimportantโ it is not to support big businesses like Amazon.
How โlazyโ it is not to shop local.
They talk over me, condescend and accuse me of not fighting for the cause.
Disabled people need your support and solidarity.
Weโre all in this fight together.
When we tell you something is inaccessible, believe us.
Most of us already feel guilty we canโt do more, but thereโs many things that arenโt โeasyโ for us.
Survival is resistance. Itโs not โlazyโ to utilize a service that will keep you alive.
Fight the fascists. Not one another.
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So much this.
And they never consider people who don't live in big cities (there are so many 'just do this...' that are entirely dependent on living in a big city).
I'm tremendously lucky that there's a greengrocer a few minutes' walk away. Most people don't have that. But where are the independent local businesses that I'm supposed to get everything else from? The sustainable refill shops that will allow me to reduce packaging? The market that lets me buy everything from farms? The shop that will sell me what I need to repair things that break?
@purplepadma @Beedazzled Oh yeah Mastodon be like:
TIRED: Donโt use Microsoft products
WIRED: Donโt use Apple products
INSPIRED: Donโt use that version of Linux
A friend quoting their dad some decades ago โif I boycotted everything the union told me to, I wouldnโt be able to feed my kids.โ
You do what you can, and it was ever thus.
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I will return to shopping locally as soon as they return to wearing masks, so that I don't have to stand in their unfiltered viruses. But I bet they're too lazy for that.
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#UI #Design Grumps' #Manifesto:
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"SiR, We HaVe A vIsIoN!ยก!ยก!"
Blast those pompous station wagons.
I would like to make two amendments to the great manifesto:
1. Tied to client-side decorations (which is greatly dislike), applications should never be able to override the presence of window borders. And, if they insist upon that, then the option to enable and set window border width must be mandatory.
2. Do not require pixel perfect placement of the active point of the cursor to resize or move windows.
Oh man, yes!
Requiring pixel-accuracy for anything on modern displays is insanity.
#LibreOffice is guilty of this on occasion.
I've definitely struggled with LibreOffice on that front quite a bit as well.
Also, Visual Studio Code (along with VSCodium and Theia IDE) is a royal pain, especially because it doesn't present window borders without enabling the native titlebar (which has it's own quirks and features). The problem there is losing vertical real estate, an already significant issue on 16:9 screens. ๐คฆ๐ผ
I have tried to use JetBrains PyCharm for my projects, but I feel like it's clunkier and slower than VS Code (which is already clunky and slow in its own right).
If I had the spare time, I definitely want to sit down and learn set up and use NeoVim to my liking. If/when that happens, I'll be more than happy to ditch VS Code.
^___^
I get most of these, but not the "scrollbars should be part of the window decorations" thing. What do you do for multiple scrollbars in a single window, like Masto's multicolumn UI?
So IMO they should be window content.
Definitely server-side decorations though.
Well, you can have scrollbars for content within a window, but it shouldn't be in-line with the content inside the window.
Basically, the way firefox worked in 2009 or so. I'm not sure when they made the change to the modern style of scrollbars where the scrollbar is inside the content being scrolled. It's stinking weird.
Found an example of how it used to work:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipediaโฆ
You see, the scrollbar is separate from the text/content being scrolled.
Now, it's an optionally disappearing element within the content being scrolled, so it gets in the way, badly, if you change the firefox config to have a decent-sized scrollbar.
*OH*, so what you mean is "no overlay scrollbars"?
That's not in the window decorations, it's still window content (as evidenced by the existence of that sidebar scroller there), but yeah overlay scrollbars suck! (We're on KDE and hardly ever see them.)
I think Firefox has an about:config you can flip.
Maybe widget.gtk.overlay-scrollbars.enabled?
Here's all our scroll-related settings, if that's helpful.
Also our Firefox is a bit older than what's current. Hopefully that doesn't have an effect.
The scrollbars still aren't the widest, but they could be worse.
Any time I create an account where the password policy forbids a certain class of character I know I might as well just hand my PII over to the data brokers directly.
Edit: autocorrupt
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Wednesday, it's Captain!
(No ยปAIยซ-Slop.)
[Edit] I would like to give credit to @Scmbradley for the original idea, published as a text-only-toot.
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Today I was reminded that old online chats offered context awareness for the people online: you knew you won't be a bother to a friend who has a smiley flower as a status; and you knew you might not be getting a quick reply from someone who's Away.
Today I don't even know if my friends are online or not. The messenger apps make the assumption that everyone is online, and if not, they will receive a push notification, and will reply to you as soon as possible. But this assumption is barely true. I bet it makes lives harder, especially for ND people
(Edited for a pixel-perfect screenshot)
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I still sometimes have to send the nohello.net link
I've also just politely requested people to simply ask the question or provide info else I will assume the hello is the start of some message and just wait instead of responding.
This has had a decent success rate but if it fails I'll go with the link. Once people understand that if they want my attention they need to actually give me info, they start using async messaging as intended.
when I flashed LineageOS, all push notifications that relied on google's proprietary code broke.
It was awesome.
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@accidentlyAnton being able to send silent messages in Slack would be nice too...
Wait, it also supposedly works with this @silent prefix?!
I totally agree. The "Focus" settings on an iPhone sort of work this way, but not like old AIM... I could reliably hold "office hours" and block messages completely when I was away.
The assumption the user is "always on" is a bad one.
@santhor when I was online from the phone, it was showing everyone that I'm "online (mobile)" or "away (mobile)", hinting that my replies could be shorter than if I was using a computer.
I think people don't use it because there is an assumption that everyone is always, permanently, terminally, online. If we foster the habit of "getting online is an action", people will be using it!
my phone is permanently on DnD, because there is no way to stop every fucking app from pinging at me all the time. Every time they update, they add a new category of notification so they can demand my attention. While there are types of notifications I might like to have, it's too much effort to selectively enforce "leave me the hell alone", so nobody gets to ping at me. Such toxic design.
I used to love gadgets and getting new ones, but now it's days/weeks to make it tolerable.
@swelljoe I used to simply turn the data off on my phone, but then I started working for Facebook, and the coworkers quickly explained to me that DnD is the only way to survive. I kept turning off the data anyway ๐
As for the gadgets: Palm OS 5 devices are as neat as they used to be when they just came out. I also am having lots of fun with my Nintendo DSi and Gameboy Micro!
๐ sharing one thought - next text, ask the friends to disable their push notifications.
sounds wild. hear me out. ๐
this enables you to free your mind from learned behaviors designed to disrupt whatever you might be doing in real life in favor of what some other human or even algorithm decided. yes, even if it is your bestie wanting to share a cute cat video - especially if it's a designed-to-deflate news headline. nope! ๐ โโ๏ธ
opt into your phone existing in your life via your personal, inalienable free will. this seems like the strongest, way to take active control of reframing one's relationship with one's devices at present. ๐
**not trying to show up as a reply guy - just offering what seems to be working well fired me and sharing if others find use in it. โ๏ธ๐
the only problem was that it's really hard to consistently/reliably keep that status updated..
Discord has it too. Typically people use custom status just for memes and not as actual status, and other ones are just set permanently and forgotten about, haha. But the automatic online/offline is sorta helpful occasionally (though way too often someone's "online" just because of leaving a PC running in the background haha)
@valpackett yeah, my Discord is permanently "away". But my ICQ used to switch between "Away" and "Online" depending on my usage of the app - it'd switch to Away when I was coding, but would switch back to Online when I opened the app. Discord allows me to set "Away for 1/2/4/8 hours" but won't show my actual status based on my actual activity. :<
If we don't count "Nina plays gdb" and "Atsuko plays KiCad", of course.
It's like 90sNerdTurrets. I see that image and my mouth is going like: 233810060
Does it still exist?
I've said for many years (and will continue to die on that hill)
Chat services peaked at MSN Messenger 6.2!
Specifically 6.2 though. Everything after that in MSN Messenger was downhill
7.0 added "Winks" who the fuck liked using those?
7.5 added Nudge. And then people learned that nudging was controlled by the *sender* so you could spam it endlessly with a simple patch. A great way to end up slapped upside the head
8.0 onward had the "Windows Live Mesenger" gross UI rework
Huh, makes me wonder if I have any where it's not a thing.
Like IRC I feel like culturally it's idle/away unless active, XMPP does presence, Slack Web puts you offline constantly, โฆ
when I was just starting to use the internet as a kid, it was gchat. So many good conversations happened in the panel on the left of Gmail, and the status icons made it all possible. I know that descended from a long line of other online chat systems. I was really sad when gchat was phased out, and my friends and I had to develop new communication habits together.
You make a good point about the assumption that everyone is online. The closest thing I have to statuses these days is in Slack, but those feel less trustworthy in terms of auto-updating, and since push notifications are sent anyways they don't serve much of a purpose.
@jacob yep! Yep.... Yes T_T
By the by, I got the inspiration from reading blog.danpetrolito.xyz/i-built-โฆ about a tool that would show "presence" in Discord. And then I found one of many papers from the olden days that actually did some research on the topic of "online presence" oppl.info/publication/oppl-200โฆ
This is a story that started back in 2022, but I think its a perfect time to reflect on the impact that it has had on my friend group still to this day.Dan Petrolito
I'm still confused by the number of people who are apologetic for not immediately answering. I keep reassuring them, I'm totally comfortable with async communication.
I leave a message, you get it when you can and unless I'm calling, texting and otherwise throwing up signal flares, that's all fine.
i notice that both Discord and Teams make a halfhearted attempt to follow this protocol.
I have Discord on my phone, so really I'm only 'away' when I'm asleep.
yes! 100 times this!
Just to be able to wake up in the middle of the night with insomnia and take a look to see who else is kicking around was priceless. Asynchronous conversation just doesn't cut it.
@reidrac xmpp has specifications for pretty much every feature found somewhere else (useful or not). But presence was so important that it is part of the protocol core, and even of its name! Whereas concehts like "group chats" are later extenions.
Some "modern" clie/ts don't really make the presence visible, however, or let you control it.
I miss that stuff so so muchโฆ Been thinking about it for a while now. (and yes, iโm ND)
And as a general thing, I hate the untold assumption that everyone would always be online nowadays
@reidrac Teams has something similar but I have been using it for two months and not sure what the Icons mean.
Find it interesting that Signal.org that AFAIK uses the same protocol as WhatsApp allows to schedule messages. Telegram could schedule as well. Outlook emails also offer you to delay post if person is away.
But WhatsApp does not have the delay feature. Maybe because it's business model is Mata data and this removes purity from the data?
Mastodon server focused on game development and related topics.Mastodon hosted on mastodon.gamedev.place
@mausmalone indeed. I personally decided not to install work Slack on my personal phone; it is inconvenient at times, but at least I know there's no sudden "hey, a quick question if you're still around" at 10 PM.
Sadly, not everyone can afford this...
@djsumdog @allo @Blackthorn there is a moden server for AIM/MSN/ICQ: nina.chat/
I'm thinking of maybe joining, but then maybe I'm better off joining XMPP.
I never had an ICQ number. I just used AIM/Yahoo/MSN via Pidgin and Adium. That's an interesting feature.
I was one of the last holdouts on AIM, still messaging the one or two people on there in the last year it was alive. I do miss that era for sure. I still have some ancient AIM logs stored somewhere.
turning off read receipts is essential for any messaging app that offers it. People don't see when I "read" their message and I don't see when they read mine.
I do miss the context statuses of ICQ, MSN Messenger and the like though. Wouldn't object to seeing something like that come back somewhere
Yeah! ICQ. Now THAT was a cool chat app.
(4229782, I'm prettttty sure - although I haven't used it in a decade)
oh wait. did some digging. I was right! Ha ha, hilarious. Uselses information ftw!
but yeah - those notifiers, SO helpful. Holy heck yes.
Interesting. I would usually think โif everyone is on, NO ONE is onโ and that, similar to texting or email, the un-statused blindness would lead to the assumption of โif theyโre there and they want to, theyโll answer, but I donโt have to expect anything.โ
On ICQ I was usually perma-offline anyway. Donโt think I saw anyone really lean into the myriad of statuses; would usually think that kind of โchoice fidelityโ would lead to its own stress.
@cthellis I think both "they will get a notification and reply" and "idk maybe they're not online right now and I want to have a focused chat so maybe I won't message first" could happen at the current model.
Lots of people in the comments mentioned that they didn't really use any statuses beyond Online and Away, and I think it is fine too!
Interestingly business-grade chat apps still have this (3CX phone systems, Microsoft Teams).
It's just consumer-facing products that have removed it for some reason..
I've been using #XMPP for the last year or so, wondering if the halcyon ICQ days of yore are still to be had.
After testing it with several friends connecting to my own self-hosted #Prosody server, here's what I found:
- Yes it all works, on all XMPP clients. But MacOS/iPadOS/iOS clients are not all that mature at this time. The #Linux (#Gajim, despite no video or audio calls) and #Android (#Conversations) XMPP clients are the best, IMHO. Always favor those, I say, and they are confidently installable and reliable today.
- Yes, use OMEMO encryption on personal chats. But when it comes to group chats, OMEMO is not necessarily the right move.
- If you don't need privacy in an XMPP group, then don't create a private group, but rather a _public_ group (the safer choice for reliability of message delivery). No OMEMO is possible in a public group, and the messages propagating around will be reliable, even to clients who vanish and re-appear after prolonged absences.
- If you really need OMEMO encryption in a group chat, create a _private_ group, not a public group. **Clients who vanish from the group for prolonged periods may miss out on some of the messages when they return (say, a few weeks later)**.
- I kept a wiki with several more quirks noted, which came up, and felt confusing and frustrating to my (non-geek) friends using XMPP.
As to your Apple-ecosystem-confined friends, at this moment in time, maybe talk to them 1:1 in #Fluffychat/Matrix, which affords encryption, and is all #OpenSource, like everything above. (Groups in #Matrix have a track record of failing for everybody in them very badly every 2 or 3 years or so.)
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@d1
Can I suggest Delta Chat to you both?
Decentralised, can self-host if preferred, no KYC, no phone numbers, anonymous, group chats, multi platform, multi OS, synchronised accounts across devices/platforms/OS's.
Even works on TAILS OS.
I'm using it on an iPhone XS iOS 18.5, a 2015 MacBook Pro running Linux Mint and a Samsung S9 running Lineage OS, fully synchronised.
Great UI, awesome UX.
Well worth a look at least...
Delta Chat is a decentralized and secure messenger app ๐ฌ Reliable instant messaging with multi-profile and multi-device support โก๏ธ Sign up to secure fast chatmail servers or use classic e-mail serv...delta.chat
@d1
Always improving, and very receptive to suggestions for improvements.
I use multiple Profiles a lot for non family chats. That way you can just delete the profile when a group or contact reaches end-of-use status.
You can always rejoin.
@avoca #Deltachat feels Alpha quality to me, *once you stray off the path of plain old 1:1 encrypted text messages, with possible file attachments, including voice memos* - which Deltachat is brilliant at (uniform clients on all supported platforms is greatly appreciated).
The #XMPP world is more "Beta-quality" feeling to me - is the lesser of evils for those geeky types who can manage its quirky landscape, and still feel like they're having fun.
*The devil is in the details* for all these ecosystems: XMPP, #Matrix, and Deltachat.
If you want something to "just work", I say use #Signal and refrain from complaining about its centralized nature. At least something "just works" today in this domain (end-to-end encrypted instant messaging, which is also reasonably private), which is reliable and trustworthy *for now*.
s/old/great/
Part of me died with my UIN.
i miss this.
I also miss local chat logs and local antispam.
@AdmiralMemo sounds like a fair evaluation of "when", but I still don't think that this is necessarily "why". Lots of people in my circle used ICQ on mobile and leveraged the status system.
Curiously, every now and then Facebook tries to bring the status back in Messenger, but I'm not sure it worked out
@wink that is true, but also consider: it means people weren't always online, there wasn't an expectation that someone would reply immediately if they're offline; but you could somewhat expect a reply if someone actually was online.
Imagine being able to login to WhatsApp once a day to check messages and chat with friends, rather than getting push notifications 200 times a day
@storm hooray, finally someone other than me complaining about this.
I feel less alone in this presenceless future.
I remember that. Also remember being blown away by ICQ. That was such an innovation for the time.
In a way, the same status indicator exists today, at least on the receiver side, but it's hidden in complex layers upon layers of phone settings ๐
I was involved with Jabber (before it was called XMPP) shortly after that decision was made, so when people still remembered why.
A big part of it was that Jabber wanted to support lossless bridging between different IM systems. Being able to run an ICQ, MSNM, AIM, and so on bridge on your Jabber server meant users could switch immediately and retain their existing contacts. If only a subset of Jabber features worked with those contacts, that gave them an incentive to switch (and a good migration path). If only a subset of other-system features worked, that made it much harder.
The ICQ protocol had this fixed set of states. One of the other messengers had status messages as free-form text. As a result, XMPP built in both. And, because it was XML, you could also put a load of other things in (e.g. the music that youโre listening to).
I wrote a little daemon (20ish years ago) that would record status messages and push them to a microblogging platform (back when Twitter was one among many and not a clear winner), so you could use a Jabber client to publish microblogging things in realtime to your contacts and more slowly to other people.
2/2
I would argue, people assume others reply asap, not the app. And that's those people's fault.
The thing I love about chats is that people can reach me when they have time, and I can reply when I have time for it in my own pace. Think about that thing you keep forgetting to ask me at midnight? Sure send a message. My phone is on DND-mode and I'll read it and reply after I wake up and have time, no rushing. (I don't do this to others unless I know they feel like this too).
@Nina Kalinina
That depends on definition of being pushed.
If there is no threat, then it's not a push, but a decision (imho)
I do recognize the ICQ iconset โฌ๏ธ
๐ด๐ผ
I must admit I actually really like the async way modern chats use.
I can have a conversation with my friends over multiple days, no need to check if they're available or not, they'll reply when they have time. No pressure.
@me
On a very surface level, yes, but not really, no. I can't send you a burst of messages with 10 seconds between each one without it being super annoying to you by email.
Also not made for rapid exchanges , like if you reply to my message while I'm writing one, I won't be able to read it without reloading the page or something
Also not sure you can jump in a call seemlessly from an email exchange, it's just not made for realtime communication
ICQ, best messenger ever, and that in early 2000.
I seek U ๐
You could also easily amalgamate them into a single interface instead of having a billion separate apps (and their desperate venn diagrams of contacts)
Wait, what. Trillian (for one example) still exits.
๐คฏ
Well, I've finally reached the point where I have to stop putting off getting new glasses.
Picked out new frames that are rather different from anything I've worn historically, and I can't believe how stupidly much I love them.
Sadly, it's going to take a couple weeks before they're ready, so I have to keep wearing my boring old glasses for a while.
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