When a #neurodivergent person tells you about how something is difficult for them, rather than thinking of them as whiny, consider that this probably means they have a certain level of trust in you to drop their mask enough to do so.
Invalidating that struggle is likely also a pretty effective way of eroding that trust.
#ActuallyADHD
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Kevin Davy
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •sonja
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Sensitive content
#actuallyautistic @autistics
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •.
it’s so exhausting, you choose your words correctly and they ignore them and insert their “interpretation,” instead. It’s like talking to the cat. 💜
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Energetic Nova
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
I struggle with word interpretation. And you definitely get looked at as bad when you dont follow implicit rules.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •.
💜
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
It's more profitable for them to "interpret" (distort) than to try to understand. Becomes habit, they do it to each other without thinking. Discard the words and keep their twisted idea of what they meant.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •.
if it wasn't all of them, you'd call it debilitating paranoia 💜
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sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
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Energetic Nova
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @angelastella @autistics
I wonder if it comes from reading strategies teachers teach in fiction that causes that…
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Energetic Nova
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @angelastella @autistics
Context clues specifically. I realized it might not be obvious what im thinking about.
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sonja
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •Sensitive content
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •.
I want to use the R-word for the shock value, I want to say, Watch for my next blog, "R-worded by Violence," and I'm serious about it. It should be paranoia, but the same type that's paranoid really is dangerous to everybody, so it's complicated, but that's how I would like to classify them, disabled by their "strength."
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Frequent enough to show a pattern. (I try to not fall into "Us vs. Them" language with my psych, goes without saying.)
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sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
issues with misinterpretation? i was way on the autistic side and my ex was wayyyy on the adhd side and they *always* misinterpreted everything i said, even after multiple conversations that i mean what i say
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •.
gawd, I don't know, I only hatched as Autistic a few years ago . . .
.
I've been thinking of Autism and Allism, NTness as opposites, I think I've heard something about people otherwise ND but still Allistic, still not Autistic
.
I suppose there could be both sorts, all combinations
.
that's all I got, I hope someone has better 💜
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Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to sonja • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •@autistics @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn
Used to misinterpret often until my twenties but got better at reading people (normies mostly, really). Misinterpretation was an entirely different pattern from the NT one, though.
(Still w/o formal diagnosis here. Personal certainty at 80% for ADHD, > 50% por autism; other things not at all clear but comorbidities are common; late-blooming trans, FWIW, and there are correlations with that.)
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •.
I'm self assessed, and I'm quite sure about Autism, but I'm starting to consider ADHD. I hadn't, because I'm not hyper, my sibling was the hyper one, but I'm starting to be open to it.
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sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Same. Never could decide if it was closer to an ADHD or autistic trait. See? There's the overlap again.
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sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
@angelastella @punishmenthurts @autistics living with someone w undiagnosed adhd for over a decade has 100% allowed me to discern that i definitely absolutely do not have any features of adhd.
the amount of chaos that a person w adhd has to live with to function has allowed me to definitively learn that i never ever ever ever want to have any sort of relationship with an adhd'er again.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •.
yeah, I had one high energy older sibling 😬
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sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Has to live? Hmm. Confirmation that we ADHD fuckers are widely different from each other. I must tolerate my chaos because I cannot control or reduce it, but it hurts me a lot. I lived in ordered environments and didn't become nonfunctional. Autistic need for certain stimuli notwithstanding.
Not defending or justifying anything, just illustrating the AuDHD spectrum.
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sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Never did really calibrate my personal requirement of these inputs. I think I can manage with sort of an internal generator of novelty, variation, distraction or whatever it is.
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sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
down (and fall asleep amazingly)
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
AFAICT that interaction does not usually happen, and I have sensory processing issues that cause me to... malfunction. (Had something close to a meltdown last month during a very noisy, chaotic meeting at a place that had become dark. Not getting visual cues as to who was speaking was the last straw for me.)
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •.
I put myself to sleep like that once, when an acid trip went scary, an emergency shutdown button is handy sometimes
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Now that you mention it, that is what happens to me when I smoke weed above a certain dose. If I remove myself from social stimuli, I fall asleep like a baby. Way easier and cleaner than with alcohol.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •.
I need weed for sleep, but also to be awake.
.
that experience was almost fifty years ago, I thought I was having some real brain event, I wasn’t sure I was going to wake up
as myself, I couldn’t think two words together, thought I was, uh, fragmented. 😬
.
Happily woke up OK. 👍
I mean, that’s my opinion, LOL.
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sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
@angelastella @punishmenthurts @autistics stuff like that happens to me a lot where things bother me but seemingly do not bother other people. then i start spiraling and panicking because i dont understand why it bothers me and no one else. then i end up feeling guilty because it bothers me. then i start having a meltdown because im feeling insane about the whole situation.
the autistic shame cycle strikes again!
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
"What's wrong with these people?" Yeah, I know.
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sonja
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Sensitive content
@angelastella @autistics @punishmenthurts i would not be surprised if the dsm combined it all under neurodivergence in the next version *but* i still believe that adhd and autism is far less related than what people actually want it to be.
one good point, autistic people are bottom up thinkers on the whole while people with adhd can be either top down or bottom up. you already have a significant difference in thought processing that can lead to multiple misinterpretations and other issues that cause interpersonal strife.
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @autistics @punishmenthurts
Hmm, definitely bottom-up at heart. Learned top-down later and fragmentarily. And yes, it is at the root of miscommunication a lot of the time, even between NTs.
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Energetic Nova
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @angelastella @autistics @punishmenthurts
I want them to find out more on the testing thing… I want to know my categories more specifically… felt like I got diagnosed with everything.
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Energetic Nova
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •@emily_rugburn @angelastella @autistics @punishmenthurts
I also kinda like the PDA label and the NVLD things cause they feel closer? But they arent in there. I really want presentation styles. Its kinda annoying cause I think my presentation though recognizably autistic to other autistics… is very presentation different. My friends describe me as maskless…
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •@Energetic_Nova @emily_rugburn @autistics @punishmenthurts
Hell, I really wasn't up to speed with these. Still learning at close to 50 because they cut us off from each other. (No, I'm not bitter, what an idea.)
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Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to sonja • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷 • • •@Tooden @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
"I got mine, fuck you" is the rough version of that.
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Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
I find that so, so frustrating.
When I speak, the message is in the fucking words. Not the microcues. Not the body language. Not the tone. I'm verbal.
And yes, it's pretty useless around neurotypicals.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •.
the very stuff we have to listen to them bragging about in school, how smart humans are to have spoken language!
.
Drives ya nuts. 😠💜
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
Yeah, humans. Don't you know that we mutants don't really belong to the species?
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •.
it was surely true at some point, we do have spoken language, but it’s one of those sci-fi stories where they’ve forgotten how it works 😀😠
.
glory days 😜
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
My theory is that we evolved as a second locus of power in a tribal society. You had the leader, who maintained power through charm and violence. And you had the gender-queer medicine person who was respected as a thinker. When the leader was about to lemming the tribe off a cliff, the medicine person would intervene. And the leader knew to back down.
Just my $0.02
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sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Agnostic about that hypothesis (actually, fuck me if I know how to get evidence for or against it) but sounds entirely plausible.
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
I just make shit up, but I'm pretty good at it.
I've been doing my own thinking all my life. I've got a head full of state secrets, and nobody ever told 'em to me. I never signed no NDA. I just figured that shit out on my own.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •.
it doesn't necessarily fit in my system, where we were here first. And so far, it seems their type show up in charge, not taking advice from anyone, but
.
if that scenario ever happened, warrior king with an Autistic prime minister or consigliere, it would suggest that when the warriors showed up, some of us foolishly thought we could keep them and use them
.
and I was fantasizing that the Neolithic people understood at least breeding if not evolution, and would know not to do that
.
😲 😂
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts
We end up with allists in power because the ones willing to hurt others in the pursuit of power usually aren't autistic.
None of the autists I know show the slightest draw to power. The most I can say is that we're driven to find influence by a sense of injustice.
An autist will (in my limited experience) gladly give up a position of power (e.g. give a patent away or give up copyright) if it benefits the world.
@Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @punishmenthurts @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
It's a common trait among autistics that we won't lift a finger to defend ourselves, but get ferociously defensive of people we care about.
I've never gotten in a fight, I've never punched someone who wasn't willing, and I've come close to killing five men for threatening people i cared about.
Woulda got 'em, too. The only reason they're still alive is that I checked myself. It's not who I want to be.
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @Mux @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Fuck me, so that's an informal diagnostic criterion for autism too?
I've upped my estimate again. Will ask about getting evaluated soon.
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NoBorg
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
Isn't Elon Musk autistic? I believed I read he revealed it himself.
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to NoBorg • • •Don't know, don't care. I'm speaking in generalities anyway. Even if he is, exceptions are to be expected. One autistic trait he definitely does not exhibit is a strong sense of justice.
@punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to NoBorg • • •@hadon @Mux @punishmenthurts @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
I'm inclined to believe it because he's such a shitty liar.
Selling a lie is a skill we tend not to possess.
But there's a distinct possibility he's just using that as an excuse for being a fucking asshole.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •.
yeah. If I had to pick, I say he’s Allistic, but if not, what’s the difference?
.
Does that make being a billionaire Nazi an Autistic trait? If he pursues severely Allistic goals with all of his resources, does it matter if he’s masking, only pretending to be that?
.
I mean, this is personal, I have exactly this going with my ex family, they never loved me because I’m a weirdo, it was always obvious that my in laws strove to be seen as normal
and to be popular, it’s what they live for, but after they disposed of me for imaginary Allistic crimes, now they are all self diagnosed Autistics, and what’s the difference to me?
.
I mean, I hope I’m the last Autistic these heavily masking Autistics destroy.
.
A few famous people masking doesn’t mean it’s not a hyper Allistic thing to be what he is. People mask, people don’t know, one name means nothing.
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NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Goiterzan, my question was mainly in response to Mux2000: "We end up with allists in power because the ones willing to hurt others in the pursuit of power usually aren't autistic. "
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •.
and I agree with Mux, usually that’s the case, aggression is more of an Allistic trait than an ND trait, I have written whole books and many blogs and a thousand toots saying that.
.
I’m saying it would be less usual for an Autistic to want that much power, but it surely happens sometimes. And again, we’re talking about types and big data, one dude doesn’t prove anything or mean anything.
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NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @Uair @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
I don't know if there are scientific studies on the subject.
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NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @Uair @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
I was just wondering because Musk has hurt a lot of people and he said he was autistic. So, we have to watch out for prejudgements and don't assume that only a certain type of person can get to high power positions or hurt others.
We all are human, autistic or not; we all are capable of good and bad :/
Nobody is better or worst than others, we are just different.
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to NoBorg • • •@hadon @punishmenthurts @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
I think we have more range than neurotypicals. When we're good, we're awesome. But when we turn to the dark side, we can be some of the most evil motherfuckers out there.
My grandfather was.
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sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •.
what we all CAN do or COULD do means nothing, it doesn’t discriminate, it is the absence of information, it means nothing. Real Allistics hurt way more people than real Autistics, and that any one of them COULD go the other direction means nothing, and do you prefer things that mean nothing? You want to correct me so nothing means anything for me?
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NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @Uair @Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
No, I don't want to correct you, I'm just reflecting out loud. And I wondered if there were scientific studies on the subject because I think science is more accurate than our individual perceptions.
If there are no scientific studies on the subject I would always question my own perceptions and conclusions.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •as far as I know there aren’t any. Maybe they call the ND pathologically nonviolent, maybe they study that. 😈
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •This sent me down a Google Scholar rabbit hole from which I emerged with the following conclusion - the current state of research on the intersection between autism and social values, such as control, violence and the will to power is shit.
@hadon @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @punishmenthurts @hadon @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
They just started seriously looking into autism ten years ago. These things take time.
Not to mention the fact that they didn't actually ask the autistic people until a couple years ago.
Ever hear of ABA? It was invented by the same prick who invented conversion therapy. I just watched "Three Kings" and the torture scene is brutal, where they loop the wires over his ears and electrocute him. Mark Wahlberg is a hell of an actor. I'm glad he didn't break his teeth making that shot.
I've seen a picture of an about five year old girl with those same wires over her ears, and her face contorted in a rictus of pain. That's ABA. Torture kids into hiding who they are.
And it was industry-standard treatment for autism until fairly recently.
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NoBorg
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •sounds awful! :/
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to NoBorg • • •It is. Should be illegal but here we are. Year or two ago some of us had to report the hell out of an account promoting ABA. To their credit, the mods at mastodon.social threw them out within the day.
(Of course we used the word "torture" in our reports.)
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Energetic Nova
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @hadon @Uair @Mux @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Because I have PDA… I have some diff feelings… since my autism causes health issues…
Im in a space of willing to try anything. CBT/DBT failed. The focus on mindfulness, the part of both of those that made it fail makes me know ACT also wont work. Anything focusing on thought control is a failure. I really need something else. Its so stupid how I can’t find something to actually help me gain a rudder.
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Dziadek
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @punishmenthurts @hadon @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
Reminds me of something Douglas Adams wrote: It is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Dziadek • • •Can you tell he's an inspiration of mine 😁
@punishmenthurts @hadon @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •@DziadekMick @Mux @punishmenthurts @hadon @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
I've always thought we should randomly draft for it.
Doug had some wisdom to him.
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •That's how democracies should work. With lots to choose temporary position, not with elections. What we have now is a mockery of the term.
@DziadekMick @punishmenthurts @hadon @angelastella @emily_rugburn @me @autistics
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @DziadekMick @punishmenthurts @hadon @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
America hasn't been a real democracy since WWII. Sadly, democracies can't win wars, and that one was important.
We're almost all the way back to democracy. Give it another couple years.
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NoBorg
in reply to Dziadek • • •@DziadekMick @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
Dziadek, makes me think of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
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Dziadek
in reply to NoBorg • • •@hadon @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
Think it’s more the belief that it’s not normal to want to have power and control. That sort of desire is a dark side of our selves. And it’s not an original Adams thought.
Dear old Kurt was there before him:
"There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don’t know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases want to be president."
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NoBorg
in reply to Dziadek • • •@DziadekMick @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
There's hierarchy in animal groups, so yearning for leadership is a natural trait. But natural leadership should be won in a fair way, you have to prove that you are a leader, not impose it by force. So what I consider abnormal is people who lie, cheat or kill to get to power.
A real leader is respected, not feared.
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cybervegan
in reply to NoBorg • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to cybervegan • • •@cybervegan @hadon @DziadekMick @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
But do we love (hate) our hierarchies! The authoritarian who doesn't feel a thrill when asking "who is in charge here?" hasn't been born yet.
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cybervegan
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to cybervegan • • •@cybervegan @hadon @DziadekMick @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
As stated in another branch of this conversation, most of us here don't want to be even near a position of power.
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Dziadek
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @cybervegan @hadon @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
looping back into a point made earlier … those are the people who should be classed as neurodivergent
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Dziadek • • •.
Yeah, what do you mean, “we,” white man? 😠 (I don’t know that you’re a white man, it’s an old Lone Ranger joke.)
Dziadek
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @angelastella @cybervegan @hadon @Mux @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
In which case, I’ll dust this one off.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •.
That Good Leader fantasy that never actually happens is forever pushed by the majority to justify the filthy swine we do get and it’s not better in the primate groups, just because some primates have a dictator doesn’t somehow make that a good thing.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •the damned epstein files, there’s your animal alphas, banging your daughters and your wife (and maybe even your dog, what was the movie, denzel and lithgow?) 😈
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •.
sorry, blog’s gone, I’ll find something later. Second sleep.
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Dziadek
in reply to NoBorg • • •@hadon @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
Our original society had no leaders. An elder, yes, but decision-making was done by a group, often advised by a shaman (or similar). I believe leaders came into being when *some fool* decided to claim a piece of land and fight for it.
And to quote somebody: You’re not a leader without followers.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Dziadek • • •@DziadekMick @hadon @Mux @punishmenthurts @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
Leaderlessness works up to about 150 people. That's all the other human personalities we can keep in our mind. Make things bigger than that, and you need hierarchy. Bureaucracy. Once everybody doesn't know each other, the whole system shifts. You can say agriculture was the downfall of humanity, but I like modern medicine and the internet. I wouldn't trade for even a luxurious hunter-gatherer lifestyle. I like dentistry.
I was talking about before that, but I bet tribes still had a strong man who mostly told people what to do. Most people need someone to do their thinking for them, and there's always some aggro asshole happy to do so.
I honestly don't think modern humans are much different from the cavemen. Evolution works slow.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •oh, boy. 😀
.
OK, nobody reads blogs, so I’ll try to just say it.
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Some anthropologists have stories about how when an egalitarian group gets a “big man,” starting to push his weight around, how they arrange an accident for him and carry on with their lives. One gets the impression they know they have to nip that shit in the bud.
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The scientists don’t think humans have alphas, I think they have traced alpha family genes in chimps and find no such genetics in humans. (I’ve forgotten where I got that, it may need some citation.)
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But to my mind, they are all alpha aggressive, and what they are really seeing is no FEW alphas among humans, and ALL alphas - so no genetic difference exists to find. My idea is that at some point in our prehistory, somewhere in the near east, the alphas had it all their way, eliminated the beta through zeta types’or at least their breeding, and most of humankind are now the alphas’ children.
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They all look like alphas because they all think they can tell one another what to do, and they all look like alphas because they hate being told what to do. Freedom! is the cry of the alpha in a world with no-one taking their orders. They burn the books and don’t need to learn because the alpha is the teacher, they tell you what you need to know.
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And my thing, spanking:
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you hit a natural born subject, a zeta, you get obedience, a passive response. You “spank,” a natural born alpha, that’s fight training and alpha epigenetics.
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So Allism is alphaism, twisted out of context. And spanking doesn’t deter them.
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I wouldn’t necessarily bet the farm, but it works pretty good.
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Oh - that happened with the orangutans, every one is a dormant alpha, and when an alpha dies, someone else grows the big face and such. Sapolsky told us this after I’d guessed it about people.
💜
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and evolution works at whatever speed the environment changes or you get unselected.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •more theories and “just so,” evidence:
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Everyone complains about the beta through zetas, the problem is the sheeple - this betrays the complainer’s neurology, they are not with the followers, they think following is stupid. Which makes the speaker alpha-compatible, they think everyone should be an alpha, thinking for themselves. Counterintuitive, maybe, divergent, maybe.
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But there aren’t followers, they are all “leading,” each other.
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You see a million people going the same direction, who’s to say it’s one leader and a million followers and not a million leaders who only know one way to go and no followers?
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Ask them! See how many call themselves followers.
.
/2
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •.
These are totally Allistic arguments you’re giving us, N. Like we don’t exist, like there aren’t types.
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sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to sonja • • •90% of everything is shit, and sadly that includes autistic people.
@Uair @hadon @punishmenthurts @angelastella @me @autistics
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @emily_rugburn @Uair @hadon @punishmenthurts @autistics
As long as we're trading made-up statistics (and make no mistake, I respected the hell out of Ted Sturgeon), I'm partial to the one which says that 10% of people are assholes and crooks, 10% are--for all practical purposes--saints, and the remaining 80% can be convinced to swing in either way. Which means: how we organize society means something. Also (partially) explains how a well-run campaign can make fascism come back almost everywhere.
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sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @Mux @emily_rugburn @hadon @punishmenthurts @autistics
I think this is a brilliant analysis.
I feel the same way about sexuality. 10% are straight. 10% are gay. And the 80% are bi, but leaning in different directions.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •.
So 10% god’s fool Autistics, 80% Allistic, and 10% hyper Allistic?
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @hadon @Mux @punishmenthurts @angelastella @autistics
I use it as an excuse for doing good in a shitty world.
My grandfather was a monster. My family is shit. I'm still the teenage rebel flipping them the finger. And in my case, it was the right call. It was the moral decision.
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sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
people believe its malicious and sociopathic
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NoBorg
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @emily_rugburn @Mux @punishmenthurts @angelastella @autistics
Poloniosmonk, you can get away from your grandfather, you can get away from your family, but you can't get away from yourself. You're stuck having to live with yourself 24 hours a day, 7 days a week! So, you better make of him a great person to share life with ;)
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Miakoda
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Miakoda
in reply to Miakoda • • •@Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics ...if I had that power, I'd strongly prefer nobody knew it was me. I don't need nor want my name on that stuff, I just want people to be ok. Seeing people happy and safe would be all I want out of it.
This topic makes me tear up. We have all the resources for everyone to be ok, and we, as a species, just don't do it for some reason.
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Ari "Two Naps" Jackson
in reply to Miakoda • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ari "Two Naps" Jackson • • •@arisummerland @hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
I fantasize about handing out Xmas cards in the Walmart parking lot with hundred dollar bills in them to obviously struggling parents.
I never aimed so high as to think about being a billionaire, but jesus fuckme christ. I'd give 999 million away as soon as possible.
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sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
student loans....
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •it’s probably against the law 😠💜
to give it all away
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sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @Uair @arisummerland @hellomiakoda @Mux @autistics
If it's not, they will find a way to make it illegal. It's not about the money. It's about power.
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @arisummerland @hellomiakoda @Mux @autistics
Naaah, things are changing here. Biden pardoned a shit-ton of student debt. And the Trump-backlash era, which is coming, will be ferociously progressive.
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @arisummerland @hellomiakoda @Mux @autistics
Let's hope so. Trump et al are making an unholy amount of damage.
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @arisummerland @hellomiakoda @Mux @autistics
Oh, yeah. They're utterly destroying my country. It will take generations to fix this.
But I think they're also creating generations who will fix this.
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Miakoda
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
sonja
in reply to Miakoda • • •Sensitive content
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Miakoda • • •@hellomiakoda @angelastella @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @arisummerland @Mux @autistics
Yeah, me neither. But the next generation will grow up in a better world than we did.
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •No good deed goes unpunished
@emily_rugburn @Uair @arisummerland @hellomiakoda @angelastella @me @autistics
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @arisummerland @hellomiakoda @angelastella @autistics
That is so true.
I've never heard anybody else use that line. Respect.
May you live in interesting times.
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Miakoda • • •@hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
One thing is the desire to do things like these, and quite another the drive to rule over others, even to achieve these goals. Making tools out of my fellow humans it's not something I'm skilled to do. Let them find their own way, I have quite enough bossing myself.
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Miakoda
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Plus, I'm fucking lazy. Doing other people's thinking for them is too much fucking work.
Learn to do it yourselves.
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Yes, this. It's not that hard, the longest part is learning to detect when you're fooling yourself and correcting it.
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Miakoda • • •@hellomiakoda @Mux @punishmenthurts @angelastella @emily_rugburn @autistics
I honestly wouldn't even want it. I know my limitations.
And I've got a Kissingerian understanding of power. I could do good with it. It's just not my game.
I'd rather make people laugh. that's harder, y'know. Comedy is the most difficult of the verbal arts.
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Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •You sure you're not AI?
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱 • • •@bardmoss @Uair @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Of all the tasteless, lazy jokes I've read this year, yours certainly is one.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •.
thank you, I didn’t get it was a joke until you said so, now I’m laughing.
.
At least Polonius doesn’t need a whole nuclear power plant to make him go 😀
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @bardmoss @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
Let's say I thought best taking it as such. Defuse it if it was an insult, making them rethink if some other thing. (It apparently was.)
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱 • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Poloniousmonk
in reply to Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱 • • •@bardmoss @angelastella @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
You think AI could write my posts?
I'm a hyperlexical verbal genius. I started reading Stephen King at age 7 and John Irving by twelve. I'm a better writer than most published authors.
And you're mistaking me for a Grand Theft Autocomplete machine?
I am very, very insulted.
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Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •I'm just saying the description you gave sounded just like AI. Not that it was written by AI, but it was descriptive thereof.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Sir Vyver 🇨🇦🇧🇧🇲🇽🇬🇱 • • •.
but you could get there if you just had more power 🤣
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @bardmoss @Uair @emily_rugburn @autistics
I'll follow Randall Munroe here: adding more power ends badly.
Hair Dryer
what-if.xkcd.comActually Autistics reshared this.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •.
😀
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
And don't you dare have a glitch in your lexical-semantic network and substitute a word for another. They will use that against you instantly and no correction will get things back on track.
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sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
reshared this
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @Uair @punishmenthurts @autistics
Of course, NTs play these stupid status and domination games all the time and they won't ever believe we don't have either the skill or the inclination for that.
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sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •@angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
I've got nothing. I don't have a job, I only have 2 people in my life and one is pretty nonverbally autistic, and I'm broke as a joke. I don't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out.
And I /still/ have better things to do with my time than play those stupid status games. Those are for punks who don't have it. If you really do, you don't give a shit.
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •.
that’s a tough one for me, I love the perfect word, even if no-one knows it and it’s as long as your arm. 😳😇
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What helps keep me grounded is I know the fancier the words are, it’s often a sign of bullshit, so I try to make myself say things in plain language, if it can’t be said plainly, it’s probably not true enough.
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sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @Uair @autistics
Fuck yes. Cursing keeps your brain clean as a motherfucking whistle.
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sonja
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •Sensitive content
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •.
fuckin’ eh 😀
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it’s another layer of complexity, a scale of finely tuned emphasis
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @angelastella @punishmenthurts @autistics
I just got fucked by that. I asked someone if a bill had to be paid up front or could be paid in arrears. Afterward, I figured out he didn't know what "in arrears" meant. He just lied to me instead.
I blame the schools. They teach you to never admit you don't know something and always try to bullshit your way through it.
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Cheating bastard. And yes, schools teach hypocrisy, manipulation and pathological indifference to your fellow human's suffering.
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina • • •And that's not by accident.
@Uair @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @Uair @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
No. It's clearly by design. Cold, calculating will to keep us divided, distrustful of each other and unable to cooperate selflessly.
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
You might like John Taylor Gatto:
dn710202.ca.archive.org/0/item…
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair
Thank you, but I don't believe I have the spoons to read long texts (I'll try to find it in audio form).
My own experience of school, and what I've learned about them since, present a solid case against them in any case.
Fucking child prisons.
@angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Mux2000 (extra-solar) • • •@Mux @angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Prisons for the crime of adolescence.
Both of my gene donors worked in high schools. That was my dad's line.
You might want to hold onto that until you have the spoons. He was teacher of the year for New York City twice and New York State once. He knows of what he writes.
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Mux2000 (extra-solar)
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Gave it a listen. He's correct, of course, but it's nothing I didn't already know. Funny how he mentions that schools were a Prussian institute, but not that the Prussians were inspired by the methods brahmins used to maintain the Indian caste system...
@angelastella @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @me @autistics
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sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
old is this shit?
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn
90s? early naughts?
Harper's is legit, tho. They never jumped the shark.
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
@Uair i mean, margaret mead was totally debunked and it physically *pains* me to see anyone praising her.
its like calling margaret sanger the forerunner for women's rights but completely neglecting the whole eugenics thing. blech.
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •.
I thought it was . . . Chagnon that everybody hated. I can't remember, what was Meade's deaL?
sonja
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Sensitive content
Poloniousmonk
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts
That's fucking hilarious. Thanks for sharing.
Although, I really don't remember a "shocked" tone. I remember it as respectful. But this was 35 years ago and I was a dipshit kid. I'm not gonna reread it now. I have better things to do with my time.
sonja
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •Sensitive content
lobotomy.might actually make me smrtrrr
Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to sonja • • •.
it's what I call Allistic science. They're good at physics and stuff, but they have a disability regarding the study of humans, they have the mythical, Human Nature sitting where a whole lot of science would be most helpful. The Davids said it gently and only once in #TheDawnOfEverything , that the Turtle Islanders found the Euro invaders to lack the "actuarial," sense, that they do not see how their treatment of one another affects society and their lives, they lack a functioning naïve psychology.
Douglas Edwards
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @Uair This is part of what I mean by saying that the #mindblindness / "theory of mind deficit" idea almost has it backwards. While #allistics do have a theory of mind, they typically let it atrophy from neglect, habitually using the automatic, intuitive mechanisms built into their #EnvironmentalYoke instead of doing any explicit theorizing. That approach may be great if all you're interested in is jockeying for position in a social hierarchy. It's not so great if you'd like to understand what kind of world your actions are building.
@autistics
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Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @Mux @emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Hey, thank you. Back in the day I translated "The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher" for my family and friends. This essay looks like a good companion to it. I don't know which of his books I read because they were re-titled: one was something like Compulsory Miseducation. Decades ago, my now adult kids were babies.
The Six-Lesson Schoolteacher, by John Taylor Gatto
www.cantrip.orgActually Autistics reshared this.
Energetic Nova
in reply to Poloniousmonk • • •@Uair @emily_rugburn @angelastella @punishmenthurts @autistics
I hate the bullshit your way through it advice!
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Poloniousmonk
in reply to Energetic Nova • • •@Energetic_Nova @emily_rugburn @angelastella @punishmenthurts @autistics
The medium is the message.
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NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Language is so ambiguous, words can have different meanings, even sentences. That's why sometimes we need further clarification.
Think about it:
"He's hot" ( mmm... he's cute? he's mad? or is it the weather? are we actually talking about temperature? ) ;)
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to NoBorg • • •.
rubbish. It can be, when people want it to be, and a certain sort always wants it to be.
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NoBorg
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •@punishmenthurts @emily_rugburn @autistics
Yes, that's true too. Some people use ambiguity for different purposes, some to wake up fear and manipulate others, make them suffer; yet ambiguity is also at the basis of humor and it may be used then to make others laugh, feel better.
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Ozzelot
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Cats have a higher chance of being trustworthy
@emily_rugburn @me @autistics
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Ozzelot • • •.
👍💜
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Hugs4friends ♾🇺🇦 🇵🇸😷
in reply to Ozzelot • • •Sensitive content
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Miakoda
in reply to Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
sonja
in reply to Miakoda • • •Sensitive content
more akin to herding cats
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Miakoda
in reply to sonja • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Miakoda
in reply to Miakoda • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
sonja
in reply to Miakoda • • •Sensitive content
not doing what they want it to do "why dont you know what i mean??"
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Miakoda
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @punishmenthurts @autistics
Me: "Ok Nabu. When was Loki fed?"
HA: "I don't know of anything called lokafed"
Me: "Hmm... I pronounce that a bit jumbled, apparently. I'll add 'lokafed' to the command."
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Goiterzan/Amygdalai Lama
in reply to Miakoda • • •.
I love that god’s handle. Low key Loki. 😀
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sonja
in reply to Miakoda • • •Sensitive content
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Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to sonja • •@sonja @Actually Autistics I don't know that I've noticed it in exactly that way, but my masking has become so deeply ingrained over the years that I seldom give people the opportunity unless I'm very close with them.
This has occasionally been to my detriment, but it has made me into a really solid independent learner when I find something I really want to sink my teeth into.
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Energetic Nova
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •@autistics @emily_rugburn
Im missing a rudder for learning on my own. Feels like im drifting in space…
Jonathan Lamothe likes this.
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sonja
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Sensitive content
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Energetic Nova
in reply to sonja • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
AutistiCritic
in reply to sonja • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Laberpferd
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn @autistics
Yes
My pain mostly comes from trying to join specific alternative lifestyles and their special-interest groups (like around the german BDSM scene)
People there literally say things like "we are not here to spoonfed you" or "we dont deal with low-effort people"
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Ulrike
in reply to sonja • • •@emily_rugburn
Oh yes! It is sooo making tired to explain... and never been understood (hope my english is ok 😉)
@me @autistics
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Perplexed by Joy
in reply to sonja • • •Actually Autistics reshared this.
Ángela Stella Matutina
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe likes this.
StarkRG
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe likes this.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to StarkRG • •DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Talking on the phone is something I've always sucked at, while I'm completely fluent when typing out text messages and do that on the reg.
Also, it's possible to manage sensory issues and the like; I used to have major issues with getting goopy stuff on my skin, so things like paint, glue, etc, for the longest time as a kid, for example, although I have since learned to manage that and it's not really an issue for me anymore, but that still takes a lot of time and effort to get to that point and sensory issues don't just go away even if they're successfully managed; they still exist.
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to DFX4509B (Joshua Mason) • •@DFX4509B (Joshua Mason) Yeah, my biggest problem is that my mouth doesn't have a backspace key. I can draft and re-draft written correspondence before hitting send, but when I say a thing, it's just out there.
Also, I sometimes need multiple passes over a sentence to process what someone has said (or written). People get upset when I ask them to repeat certain things more than once. When it's written, I just move my eyes back to the beginning of the sentence as many times as necessary and nobody's any the wiser (except for me, I guess).
DFX4509B (Joshua Mason)
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Also, it feels kinda nice to be able to open up here or on Mastodon, while if I tried opening up similarly on Facebook or Twitter, or sadly even Bsky to some extent for that matter, I'd probably get ostracized for it.
Although I'm more of a visual type when it comes to expression anyways, as in I like to draw or paint a lot and consider myself pretty good at it.
JB 🐎
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •No Exceptions
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •I have bipolar disorder, in treatment for decades. It's a neurodivergent condition as well.
I kinda don't care what people take me for, though. Some people are just going to find what they don't like wherever they look.
I scare people.
And I trust no one.
Miakoda
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Miakoda • •Thomas Svensson 🖖
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •It sure is. But the times I get consideration it is for them a passing moment in time, while for me it is literary my everyday.
Too often the same people forget that moment, the next times we are in a similar situation.
Sonikku
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •That <insert_expletive_here> boss of mine totally doesn't get this at all, yet somehow he became a people leader.
Has the people skills of a bowling ball
Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Sonikku • •@Sonikku All too freaking common.
A good boss should reduce or remove barriers that impede their subordinates from doing their job effectively. Shockingly few can actually accomplish this.