#UI #Design Grumps' #Manifesto:
- Scrollbars should be thick enough to grab easily with an ordinary mouse.
- Scrollbars should be a part of the window decoration, NOT inside the content of the window.
- Active titlebars and inactive titlebars should be completely different colors or brightnesses. Obvious at the quickest glance.
- Client Side Decorations are stupid, I don't care how many people say otherwise, or how many times. They're just awful on so many levels.
- All text should be of decently high contrast, and any text atop varying elements like videos should be outlined and/or shadowed for maximum visibility. No more stupid plain white text atop bright videos, you absolute station wagons.
- Any program, whether gui or CLI, should be comfortable and usable in either light or dark mode, depending on the user's preference.
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fedops 💙💛
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •sotolf
in reply to fedops 💙💛 • • •fedops 💙💛
in reply to sotolf • • •@rl_dane
R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to fedops 💙💛 • • •sotolf
in reply to fedops 💙💛 • • •D. Moonfire
in reply to sotolf • • •sotolf
in reply to D. Moonfire • • •R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to sotolf • • •D. Moonfire
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to D. Moonfire • • •"SiR, We HaVe A vIsIoN!¡!¡!"
Blast those pompous station wagons.
Linh Pham
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •I would like to make two amendments to the great manifesto:
1. Tied to client-side decorations (which is greatly dislike), applications should never be able to override the presence of window borders. And, if they insist upon that, then the option to enable and set window border width must be mandatory.
2. Do not require pixel perfect placement of the active point of the cursor to resize or move windows.
R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to Linh Pham • • •Oh man, yes!
Requiring pixel-accuracy for anything on modern displays is insanity.
#LibreOffice is guilty of this on occasion.
Linh Pham
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •I've definitely struggled with LibreOffice on that front quite a bit as well.
Also, Visual Studio Code (along with VSCodium and Theia IDE) is a royal pain, especially because it doesn't present window borders without enabling the native titlebar (which has it's own quirks and features). The problem there is losing vertical real estate, an already significant issue on 16:9 screens. 🤦🏼
R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to Linh Pham • • •Linh Pham
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •I have tried to use JetBrains PyCharm for my projects, but I feel like it's clunkier and slower than VS Code (which is already clunky and slow in its own right).
If I had the spare time, I definitely want to sit down and learn set up and use NeoVim to my liking. If/when that happens, I'll be more than happy to ditch VS Code.
R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to Linh Pham • • •^___^Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •I get most of these, but not the "scrollbars should be part of the window decorations" thing. What do you do for multiple scrollbars in a single window, like Masto's multicolumn UI?
So IMO they should be window content.
Definitely server-side decorations though.
R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Well, you can have scrollbars for content within a window, but it shouldn't be in-line with the content inside the window.
Basically, the way firefox worked in 2009 or so. I'm not sure when they made the change to the modern style of scrollbars where the scrollbar is inside the content being scrolled. It's stinking weird.
R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •Found an example of how it used to work:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia…
You see, the scrollbar is separate from the text/content being scrolled.
Now, it's an optionally disappearing element within the content being scrolled, so it gets in the way, badly, if you change the firefox config to have a decent-sized scrollbar.
Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •*OH*, so what you mean is "no overlay scrollbars"?
That's not in the window decorations, it's still window content (as evidenced by the existence of that sidebar scroller there), but yeah overlay scrollbars suck! (We're on KDE and hardly ever see them.)
R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •But the entire mozilla suite does. :/
Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •I think Firefox has an about:config you can flip.
Maybe widget.gtk.overlay-scrollbars.enabled?
R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to R.L. Dane 🍵 • • •Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •Here's all our scroll-related settings, if that's helpful.
Also our Firefox is a bit older than what's current. Hopefully that doesn't have an effect.
The scrollbars still aren't the widest, but they could be worse.
R.L. Dane 🍵
in reply to Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄 • • •