One thing I like about running #Debian is that when some project adds something that people don't like, I get plenty of heads up before that version actually hits the official Debian repos. 🙃
I'm really not happy with the situation either... 🙁 Maybe a workaround would be looking at the code and find every single url/ip that FF is supposed to call and block them in a firewall... but that's both not very casual user friendly and time consuming because if it's efficient they would just have to regularly change subdomains or whatever to make things hard.
To be fair, I could paint this one quickly because I only painted the fox and the parrot over a scene that I had already painted for Reddit when they had their API change controversy back in June 2023. The artwork is hosted somewhere in this directory: peppercarrot.com/en/artworks/m…
Official homepage of Pepper&Carrot, a free(libre) and open-source webcomic about Pepper, a young witch and her cat, Carrot. They live in a fantasy universe of potions, magic, and creatures.
Official homepage of Pepper&Carrot, a free(libre) and open-source webcomic about Pepper, a young witch and her cat, Carrot. They live in a fantasy universe of potions, magic, and creatures.
I'm not sure so far. ML has valid applications, and so far what Mozilla has brought to the table seems very reasonable to me. Most important thing for me is that everything is local and privacy friendly. And the features they have are very reasonable: An alt-text generation model makes a lot of sense for people to whom alt-texts matter. And local translation of websites also sounds like a really nice feature. As far as I see such features will make the web more accessible with better privacy.
For me the most important things are:
1. ML should be local and not send arbitrary data to shady third party services 2. ML should be build to only affect performance when you actually need it 3. ML should provide specific tools, not general purpose blackboxes
Also 4. ML should be trained in a responisble way, which means: 1. Responsible source of training data 2. Resource use of training should be justified by the benefit of the functionality
I remember the time when ML was mosty an exciting University thing, where results were shared, and not some big corporation BS. I am not against going back in that direction.
But you know, digiKam has been using public models for facial recognition and matching for years now. And I don't think anything bad came from it.
I am currently in the position of saying: Wait and see what mozilla does. And if it turns out the wrong way, there are forks. That's the beauty of open source.
@lazy Plenty of good ML research going on at Unis. LLMs and Stable Diffusion are just a microscopic slice of ML and there is a lot of cool stuff you can do with the part that do not require you to steal all intellectual property in the world.
@j_bertolotti @lazy I totally agree, and although I often take shortcuts for the sake of efficient communication, my position on LLMs is nuanced.
What worries me the most is that 'AI browsers' have a larger scope by definition. If Firefox wants to join that group, it would also mean getting a built-in assistant that can browse the web automatically, fill in forms and purchase items on the user's behalf.
I know users will be able to turn it off, but I see it as a source of security breach.
@FoxbrushTailwag Same here, and it makes it even more frustrating. I'm still using Firefox after a couple of months of using LibreWolf, which was educational because I could understand many of Firefox's privacy and options that LibreWolf activates by default.
@rl_dane @cybird hmmh, not sure about innocence. Maybe it's naiveness or it falls more into the category: Ignorance is bliss.🤷♀️
otoh it is already sawing the wrong side of the branch it's sitting on, which isn't a particular sly plan from the beginning... (and which is also an good observation on moz.com's track record).
Yeah, I guess "innocence" is more a descriptor of the empathic emotion it evokes (in terms of what is desired) than what is actually there.
But also, the extreme juxtaposition of the cute fuzzy "innocent"-looking animal with the horrendously clueless and villainous TESCREAL reality of what Mozilla has become. Ugh.
_________________________________________
/ You look like you're trying to saw off \
| the branch you're sitting on. Would you |
\ like some help with that?? /
-----------------------------------------
\
\
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣤⣤⣄⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⣶⠟⣉⣤⣢⣄⡪⢝⢦⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⡿⢁⣾⠟⠉⠉⠉⠹⣧⣃⢳⡀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣼⡏⣼⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⣏⣸⡅⠀⠀⠀
⠀⢀⣴⡿⠿⣿⠃⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣷⣿⣶⣄⠀⠀
⠠⠞⠁⠀⢠⣿⠌⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⡇⣿⠛⠛⠿⣄
⠀⠀⢀⣠⠾⠿⠾⣷⡀⠀⠀⠀⡠⢶⠛⠹⠿⢶⣄⠀⠈
⠀⢠⠋⠀⢀⣁⡀⠘⠙⣦⡀⠘⠈⠀⣠⣤⡀⠀⠻⣦⠀
⠀⢀⠀⠀⢾⣿⣿⠀⠀⢘⣧⠇⡀⠘⢿⣿⠏⠀⠀⡿⠀
⠀⠈⢧⡀⠈⣉⡁⠀⣤⡞⠀⠘⢢⣀⡄⠀⢠⣠⠾⠃⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠉⣷⡖⣶⡛⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⡏⣿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⢻⡇⣽⢺⣱⡄⠀⠀⠀⣿⢇⡏⠀⠀⣰⡖⣦
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⡇⣿⢻⠸⡇⠀⠀⠀⣿⢰⡏⢀⣾⢳⡾⠉
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⡄⡿⣿⠘⡁⠀⠀⠐⣿⢸⡇⣾⢇⡿⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⠐⣟⣧⢰⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⢺⠆⣿⢸⡇⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⠡⣟⣿⢸⡇⠀⠀⢸⣇⢿⠆⣿⢸⡅⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⠡⣏⣿⡸⡅⠀⠀⣼⢏⣼⠆⣿⢸⠃⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⠰⣿⠹⣶⣭⣖⣪⣵⡾⠏⢠⣿⢸⡁⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⢂⡷⠀⠈⠉⠘⠉⠉⠀⠀⠸⣿⢼⡀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⡍⢿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⠇⣼⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠹⣯⡎⡻⢦⣀⣀⣀⣀⡤⠞⣉⣼⠃⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠻⢷⣦⣢⣬⣤⣤⣶⠾⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Firefox is shooting itself in the foot with this. Most Firefox users are users of the browser because of privacy reasons and to escape the big brother tech.
Implementing ai in the browser is repulsing idea. Nobody want that. I believe sooner than later people are going to avoid AI in the most parts.
@vismantas Just the new CEO at Mozilla communicating enthusiastically about AI in general on Mozilla's blog for Firefox (eg. "It will evolve into a modern AI browser") src: blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/le…
They should have one of Zen browsers developers as Firefox CEO. Not a finance bro. Firefox should focus on only being a decent browser. They are a foundation, not a for profit corporation and need to act as so.
while the recursive name certainly helps, pizza developers use proprietary ingredients while mac and cheese development is fully free. The source code is in the name!
Although you could argue that Kraft Dinner is proprietary, but that's like a proprietary version of UNIX. People just go to it for nostalgia knowing it's way outdated, and any attempt to replicate it will give a better result.
I can't upload the image because of the poor internet connection, but I've never heard of a life blanket here before, my dear. But it's not a stupid question; rather, the oppressive rulers are the stupid ones who haven't been able to resolve our issue and provide us with shelter.😞😞
No, no, we don't have anything like that in Gaza. If it existed, we would know about it and it would be sold everywhere, but I've never heard of it before.
A lot of folks have asked me if I'm serious about relaunching Mozilla after their inevitable collapse.
What I can say with confidence is that if the brand assets become available, I would absolutely look into purchasing them, in the same manner Perifractic "resurrected" Commodore. I am no millionaire, so this would have to be a community-driven thing.
Imagine: everyday people like us banding together to resurrect our beloved browser. I'd absolutely do my part to spearhead that.
That's the dream! Unfortunately, in the wake world, things are less than great. I'm wondering for a while if we are past the point of a hard-fork of firefox.
This is not a "you can't do it" message, but there will be challenges.
MDN is a massive effort. Maintaining Firefox and its core, or rebuilding it, is practically a state-level project requiring salaries, benefits, a legal department, and the need to attract people who can do the work.
Maybe "rebuild it" is the solution though. LadyBird is not a massive non-profit, and it's been very successful so far on its plan to make a new competing browser core.
That would be awesome and so needed. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks we need an independent organisational hard fork. But picking up the pieces and putting it in the hands of the community could work as well.
I'm still of the opinion that we need an organisational fork of Mozilla, preferably not domiciled in the US.
We have technical forks like librewolf, that's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for new stewards of the upstream code. Although perhaps if the forks want to consider how they'd become a hard fork, with an organisational structure that would work too.
Mozilla is a product of it's surroundings. It's surroundings was silicon valley and well 🤷♀️
I'm super jaded about getting change for good. As an American, seeing our democracy being teared away and the administration having laws benefit companies, I feel very hopeless about positive change
a cooperative is fine, but the members/owners should be the maintainers, not us users. I don't want to be involved in voting a board/steering the org structure.
I want to pay for Firefox for its features.
I want that Firefox / Mozilla start a business model to motivate the majority of users to pay for development. I want to vote for features/dev priorities.
Stop #enshittification Stop the ad/search engine based revenue dependency. Start making the value Mozilla provides to its users visible.
What do they own that we need? Am I missing something? Not trolling here.
WebKit and Gecko are open source (more or less, I’m not up to date on MPL). There’s currently a fair number of browsers based on them, but the non corporate efforts are spread out.
A non-profit organization with the intent to fund free/open/private WebKit/gecko (fork if forced) as well as an official cross platform UI that works with both engines could be created.
I think that would be the tipping point for me to actually put money into something.
Obviously YMMV, and I can’t tell if I’m in a minority here or if many others would be interested.
Would you consider a stream to talk about it with chat?
At least to me the brand is not really relevant there. We, as a community, could theoretically always make a forge from Firefox under a different way. However since web standards are insanely complex, that would the the actual problem.
Reading this whole thread, I see people mentioning bringing back Netscape Navigator. I wonder if anyone remembers the original Mozilla browser that replaced NN when it went away, right before the browser part was splintered off. SeaMonkey is the continuation of that. A wave of community support for that project would be nice to see. I do miss that whole suite of apps.
so…I see a flaw in the plan. “Inevitable Collapse”…are we talking geologic time? Because it has been on death’s door for around a decade at least and hasn’t managed to fall into the grave yet. Here are the likelier outcomes: 1: Does the zombie thing like Radio Shack for another decade. 2: Gets propped up as ‘competition’ for a larger company facing fines/lawsuit. 3: Gets bought by some AI company looking for a plug/play use case. 4: Bought and retired by a larger company.
Wozilla. like wario but instead of being obssessed with money, gold, castle and minigame, run a decent browser. Debian used to have a IceWeasel branding for firefox, I'm curious what happened to it
The only real asset (other than the user accounts, of course) the brand has is the code, and all the important code is already available.
For the people who want to see a return of "Netscape", the assets were sold to Sun (now owned by Oracle) and AOL (now owned by Yahoo, now owned by private equity), so good luck with that.
My advice to you would be to get involved with one of the many forks of the Firefox code.
Going in for a medical procedure (probably nothing to be worried about) that's going to require me to start a clear liquid diet tomorrow morning. It's gonna suck, but at least 12 years as a Mormon taught me how to deal with being hungry for an extended period (because fasting). I made sure to eat well for my last meal tonight though.
So the procedire in question is a colonoscopy. In addition to the diet they've also prescribed laxatives. I just took the first dose a short while ago. Apparently these things work fast.
Another #elisp question: Why does #Emacs have separate bits for the meta key (2**27) and alt (2**22)? Aren't they the same key, or is it a remapping thing like the ESC prefix?
@donaldh Yeah, I get that, but when emacs says I need to use the meta key, it's actually alt that I use. I'm guessing this is a remapping because most modern keyboards don't actually have an alt key, in much the same way you can use escape if you don't have an alt key?
not sure but IIRC the lisp machine keyboard distinguishes various special keys like ALT, META, HYPER etc. So on a modern machine they aren't distinguished, but in an alternate computing history we would have these modifiers on our keyboard and could map them differently.
Meta and ALT are not the same key. The original keyboards used long ago had Ctrl, Super, Hyper, Meta, and ALT keys. We now map Meta (i.e. ESC) to the Alt key on our keyboards as a convenience. I do not believe there is a way, on modern keyboards, to have both META and ALT mapped to a key. We can have Super, and Meta. I can't recall if I was able to map Hyper on a modern keyboard.
If you want a rigorous analysis of why statistical #AI models collapse when continuously trained on their own data without external supervision and constraints, read this amazing paper from last year.
If you want to get a visual intuition of how model collapse looks like, look at this video.
When AI stares at its own reflection for too long, and its inference is purely rooted on statistics rather than reasoning, this becomes statistically inevitable.
Keep this in mind whenever you hear someone talking about “AI models learning from their own outputs” without addressing the statistical parrot issue.
Analysis shows that indiscriminately training generative artificial intelligence on real and generated content, usually done by scraping data from the Internet, can lead to a collapse in the ability of the models to generate diverse high-quality out…
Here’s how Apple “Permanently” locked my Apple ID.
I am writing this as a desperate measure. After nearly 30 years as a loyal customer, authoring technical books on Apple’s own programming languages (Objective-C and Swift), and spending tens upon ten…
They did this to me as well a few years back…then essentially denied me access to about $1,000 worth of music I had downloaded for my (back then) iPad. Not amount of conversation, emails, or social media posts remedied the situation. They won, I lost. Good luck. HN just might do it.
I also had a pre-email account. Someone got my password and changed it and Apple support said they couldn't recover it since their support tools required username to be email so they just apologized and I was out of luck. I lost my iTunes library. I'm not an apple user in general anymore, but that helped solidify that I wouldn't be returning.
I’ll see what if anything #aapl shareowners can do. I am terrified of this too as a personal and small business user (try to keep your spending on each separated to satisfy tax authorities, and not have all eggs in one fragile basket). So many things #aapl seemed to get right and see from the u/x. If this is how they use #ai,or just write code poorly for fraud alerts, it is not good.
@me OP had 20 years to set up local storage for up to 6TB. 8TB currently goes for under $300. They could have, but didn't, instead naïvely putting their trust in a giant faceless corporation who doesn't care about them or anyone. OP is an 'expert' who apparently didn't back up important and irreplaceable data in a form they controlled directly, even though they easily could have.
I read it. What point do you believe you're making?
@wesdym @me Pardon me guys for butting in but I wondered 1) if the data was crucial why O did not back it up and 2) why did he so obviously, as a guest, take a dump on Apple's carpet! I mean, when you're a guest ...
@PerryM Apple wronged him, no doubt, but any other huge company would just as readily. It's not even relevant, in my mind, which company was involved.
OP could have easily avoided this whole drama if they'd backed up critical data locally, which they clearly know enough about, could almost certainly afford, and had 20 years to do it.
Sympathy only goes so far. At some point, it's fair to point out mistakes like this, if only so that others might learn from their errors and not repeat them.
@wesdym Wes, it may be as simple as a small company, without professional or employed IT help for $$$ reasons, having fallen into a solution to run their business and without being aware of their IT danger ... fell victim to it! I can't imagine.
@PerryM I know you're not this stupid. If you read the piece, you definitely know better, and you should be embarrassed to offer this argument. You should also be grown up enough not to write this badly to anyone who's invited your commentary.
The Damage: I effectively have over $30,000 worth of previously-active “bricked" hardware. My iPhone, iPad, Watch, and Macs cannot sync, update, or function properly. I have lost access to thousands of dollars in purchased software and media.
@me And that's very bad, but all of that stuff is replaceable -- and, at least in theory, the money can be recovered, too. But going 20 years without backing up 6TB of data? No, sorry. No excuse.
@Negative12DollarBill @WesDym I honestly can't say. I avoid Apple products for exactly these minds of reasons. With the way they tightly control the entire hardware/software stack, it's not an entirely implausible claim though.
@me @wesdym Pretty sure Apple can't reach their long arm out far enough to stop me using my phone to call people. That's a contract between me and my phone company after all. I suppose the Contacts app might have problems? But that's not the same as "bricked".
@Negative12DollarBill @WesDym You can't make phone calls if you can't unlock your phone, can you? Again, I don't know how this actually works in practice. I'm just saying they absolutely could.
My partner had an iPad that had been locked to her ex's account. It was for all intents and purposes completely bricked to us.
Yeah, but 'bricked' is an issue specific to local hardware, not external control systems such as the telco or mfr. It means it won't start up, for anyone.
Misusing this term this way would be like me saying that someone taking my car key from me is the same as the engine seizing up. In the latter case, NO ONE can start it.
so, for convenience you put your whole digital life in a trap and now you are complaining that you are trapped? Trusting in a single company (regardless of apple, google, microsoft, atlassian, etc) is - frankly speaking- stupid these days. Go and free your digital life with Linux, OSS and Selfhosting. This is not convenient at all, but it's much better than being a digital slave from big-tech
@nieuemma Yeah, I've used such solutions on and off. They're great until Google intentionally breaks them, at which point I go back to the official client and forget about the alternatives by the time they're fixed. 🙃
I haven't had that happen yet. One stops working and I move on to another one so far, which is maybe only a couple of months, at least one has worked for me.
I've been playing around with keymaps. Apparently they can be used to create menus that give the user a visual list of options. The canonical way to make them is aparently with make-sparse-keymap to create the menu and define-key to add options to it, but this causes some confusing behaviour.
Take the following example:
(let ((menu (make-sparse-keymap "My menu")))
(define-key menu "a"
'(menu-item "Foo" foo))
(define-key menu "b"
'(menu-item "Bar" bar))
menu)
Each new entry is added to the top of the list, so when the menu is displayed, they're listed in reverse order. This is very counter intuitive.
Now, I understand that the nature of lists in lisp make inserting an element at the top of the list less computationally expensive, but when you've already got to walk the whole list anyway to ensure the key binding isn't already present, this no longer feels like an adequate excuse.
I'm confused as to what you're trying to achieve. If it's for popup options you can look at 'transient' or 'hydra'. If it's for a keymap then 'defvar-keymap'
@Robert Pluim 🇪🇺 Yeah, it is for a keymap. I just want a menu on the screen to display what key corresponds to what option. I'm guessing defvar-keymap is worth investigating.
@Robert Pluim 🇪🇺 I seem not to have function definitions for either defvar-keymap or which-key. I'm using Emacs 28.2 (as found in the Debian 12 repositories).
I think you've got it right. Many who write lisp think of adding to the head of the list as normal, even if they still have to walk it for things like uniqueness checks.
I virtually never set custom keybindings in #Emacs preferring instead to rely on M-x function calls because I had such a hard time finding key sequences that weren't used by something else. Since learning that C-c /[A-Za-z]/ is reserved for user-defined keybindings, I've gone mad with power.
@rpluim no way. I'm actually super curious what you use repeat for that isn't accidental when trying to undo something after coming from typing in a browser or something
@Lens @Robert Pluim 🇪🇺 On my system C-z suspends Emacs and drops me back to the terminal until I issue the fg command to bring it back. I use this for issuing git commands. I could probably do this from within Emacs, but I haven't bothered to figure it out.
@lens_r magit is awesome, but it's not part of standard Emacs. VC is, but that's not as good as magit for git (it's great however when you're forced to use some other version control system like CVS, since VC provides bindings that work whatever the underlying system is)
@Zenie That's an option, but my concern is that the reason they might be vague in the docs is because the specific error might change in future versions.
It's lisp. Stuff doesn't change that much. Usually errors are obvious and for very specific reasons. You can just catch them and print the message so if anything does change you will know. I don't think it's worth worrying about.
I wish this wasn't so hard to understand for people, like so what if you don't like it, it's not FOR you. Not everything has to be for you.
Or you're bashing something to feel superior to them, which is worse, this is not a competition...
If some one gets emotional joy from Pumpkin Spice Lattes (for example), who are you to be dissing on their enjoyment, go find your own drink and enjoy that with joyful abandon as well.
I've long known that certain ASCII control sequences could be mimicked by holding control and pressing a key, e.g.: backspace is CTRL-H, newline is CTRL-J, but I was today years old when I learned that the ASCII control code is just the ASCII value of the key being pressed along with control bitwise and-ed with 0x1f.
It feels weird that I hadn't caught onto this sooner.
Welp, it looks like our Instacart account is probably cooked. We need to find a replacement for that income quickly.
Fortunately, we were already in the process of trying to do that because of the wear and tear it was putting on the car. I have a few irons in the fire, but nothing concrete yet. We need something we can do on an on-demand basis so that we can work when our mental health permits.
I'm notoriously bad at interviewing for jobs. It always involves some element of exaggerating the truth (a.k.a. lying) which I suck at. It turns out for instance that the honest answer to "why do you want to work here?" (so I don't starve and end up homeless) isn't a good answer. 🙃
Looks like we've officially been fired from Instacart. It was the customer's word against ours. In the long run, this is probably a good thing as it was slowly killing our car with all the mileage it was putting on it. It was never meant to be a permanent solution anyway.
venting about the medical system in Ontario (vague for privacy reasons)
My partner has been dealing with $condition for a very long time. In that time we have tried many therapies and medications without much success. We have found $medication_a which actually helps, but causes $side_effect which is not sustainable. Fortunately, we've found $medication_b which makes $side_effect tolerable.
She's been on a waiting list to see a specialist for a while and finally had her first appointment today. After a single 30 minute appointment, his solution was to increase $medication_a while completely stopping $medication_b. When she objected about $side_effect (which she'd already told him was the reason for $medication_b) he said to just do $obvious_thing as though we hadn't tried that already.
What's worse is that he faxed the order to our pharmacy canceling her previous prescriptions.
Of course, I am not a doctor but what the hell is this guy thinking??
Long-winded post about Emacs and gripe about modern computing
I think I've been able to pin down what it is that I like about #Emacs so much. When I first started using computers, I was using a TRS-80. If you didn't have a cartridge inserted, It'd boot directly into BASIC where you could program the machine directly. That wasn't a bug, it was a feature.
Modern computing seems to do its best to hide all that stuff away. Everything is treated more like a simple (albeit specialized) appliance, not a powerful machine that can be made to do literally anything you want. Instead, it's about what the various software vendors want it to do.
Emacs by contrast not only gives you all the tools you need to modify it in any way you want, but actively encourages you to do so. It feels a lot more like the computing systems of old. Perhaps that's not for everyone. There's a reason computers were so niche back in the early days. Most people just didn't care to learn what was going on under the hood, and that's valid. There's something to be said for a tool that just works effortlessly out of the box. Also, to be clear, you don't strictly speaking need to dig into the internals to use Emacs, but I prefer for my technology to serve me, and I'm willing to put the effort in to make that happen.
Long-winded post about Emacs and gripe about modern computing
Sensitive content
❤️ Yessss! The ability to make the computer do tasks specific to *you* has always been what separates users from "power users". And being able to write the simplest loop in any language is a *super* power.
(I do the Vim calling out to external tools thing and I like it, but I have always harbored a certain amount of jealousy for Emacs.)
Long-winded post about Emacs and gripe about modern computing
@ratfactor I don't know enough about vim to really make a fair comparison. I used it in the late 90s to early 00s, but then I was working a job that was made easier by some custom elisp scripts. Then it was just the editor I became comfortable with.
Maybe I could've done it in vim, but it was just where I happened to land.
Long-winded post about Emacs and gripe about modern computing
Sensitive content
I got heavy into Vimscript long enough to know that it's the worst thing I've ever used. Now I have Vim call out to Bash or Ruby scripts to process text...But you can't modify how Vim actually works that way. Emacs is way better for making true in-editor functionality. I just never was able to get the hang of it as an editor.
Welp, I guess it's finally time to retire my jacket. I keep fixing it and it keeps tearing in other places. I got four years out of it, which isn't terrible by modern standards, I suppose.
It turns out they still sell that exact same style of jacket, so maybe Santa will be nice to me this Christmas. In the meantime, I'll just have to fall back on my older coat and just layer sweaters and such underneath.
I use a giant #org-mode repisitory to keep myself organized. I synchronize this repisitory between multiple devices using #git because occasionally I'll find myself out without an internet connection and it's useful for merging when they fall out of sync.
To that end, I frequently find myself issuing the command git commit -am stuff, which makes me feel kind of dirty, but it's just the easiest thing to do.
Luckily no one but me will ever see this repisitory.
So I cancelled my YouTube Music subscription a while back. Interestingly enough, it still works without a paid subscription; they just add anti-features (i.e.: a ton of ads and the inability to navigate away from the app without stopping the music).
As it turns out, all these anti-features go away if you use it through a browser with an ad-blocker. I wonder how long it'll take them to lock that down.
• (eepitch-shell) cd foo tar xvf testpackage-0-0.tar • (add-to-list 'load-path "~/foo/testpackage-0.0") • (load "testpackage") • (apropos "testpackage") => testpackage-func is an interactive Lisp function in ‘testpackage.el’.
Ah, yeah, I thought a little bit more and you weren't actually saying I-want-to-load-this-file. I guess the concept of a package in emacs lisp does not resemble common lisp at all. I.e. a symbol doesn't have a package like a lisp symbol does. Packaging refers to packaging e.g. a mode for distribution, right? At which point I think we would refer to e.g. melpa github.com/melpa/melpa?tab=rea… about what melpa wants you to do. That's my 25 cents anyway. @sacha
i think -pkg files are possibly outdated or else rarely used (i have never used mastodon.el's, it is just there, possibly stale code). your testpackage doesn't seem to have enough juice in it to be a package, normally it'd have a provide statement at end, and in that file, there is possibly not enough in your file headers. try `auto-insert` to insert a file header will some details, or look at some existing Emacs packages (their main files). eg codeberg.org/martianh/mastodon…. or perhaps read up on the docs about writing a package, regardless of multi files or not? (these are my random ideas after looking at your files.) (+ re your first comment, docs may well be lies. i learned about multi files pkgs (after accidentally inheriting one) only by looking at existing ones that i actually use and asking folks when stuck.)
If we look at Xahlee's site here: xahlee.info/emacs/emacs/elisp_… he notes that "The terms “Package” and “Library” do not have technical meaning in elisp.
The term “module” is not used by emacs."
} really, we are concerned with writing modes for emacs. Packaging them for distribution means meeting the package-source's requirements for the mode to be built and then distributed from a git, e.g.. That is my other 25 cents ;p.
This is different to #commonLisp in which I might CL-USER> (uiop:define-package foo) #<"FOO" package> CL-USER> (in-package foo) #<"FOO" package> FOO> (defvar bar) BAR FOO> (export 'bar) T
} this is not an emacs idiom. Similarly, common lisp does not have a notion of interaction major and minor modes like emacs does. I guess package in emacs means something similar to system in the de facto asdf sense in common lisp. In my opinion this collision is confusing.
it feels like you're manually creating a .tar like what would be in an ELPA, but you can submit things to NonGNU ELPA or MELPA as a recipe, which can include your .texi manual if you want. github.com/melpa/melpa/blob/ma…emacsredux.com/blog/2021/08/11… . Before inclusion in one of those repos, people can also install it manually or with use-package :vc or package-vc-install: gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/…
Recently I wrote an article about NonGNU ELPA and I promised to check for myself how easy it is to submit a new package there. I made good on my promise and in this article I’ll briefly describe the process.
@Sacha Chua @screwlisp Yeah, that's essentially what I'm trying to do. My eventual goal is to create my own semi-private ELPA archive, mostly because I don't want to bother people with having to review my probably terrible novice code before including it in their archives. 🙃
None of this code is really ready for public consumption yet. It's more of a learning exercise.
I picked a trivial multifile package example, seq: Tree: gitweb.git.savannah.gnu.org/gi… A package of three files, seq.el, seq-24.el and seq-25.el, and if you are in emacs 25 or later, seq.el requires seq-25 or seq-24 otherwise. Presumably your multi-file elisp project should meaningfully resemble seq e.g. with the conventional package headers.
Yes, you don't write that stuff. []. You just write your major/minor modes as normal, and your headers provide metadata that is used by package sources to generate the package tars. @sacha
as we can see in > (directory "~/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.24/*.*") (#P"~/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.24/seq.elc" #P"~/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.24/seq-25.elc" #P"~/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.24/seq-24.elc" #P"~/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.24/seq-autoloads.el" #P"~/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.24/seq-25.el" #P"~/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.24/seq-pkg.el" #P"~/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.24/seq.el" #P"~/.emacs.d/elpa/seq-2.24/seq-24.el") if you will forgive some of the-other-lisp ;p @sacha
@screwlisp @Sacha Chua What I'm curious about is how it made the determination that seq.el was the main file. This is fairly obvious with my human intuition. Was it just because all the other .el files started with seq-, or was it doing something more fancy by looking at the contents of the files and seeing what requited what?
Edit: Ah, I bet it has to do with the fact that only seq.el had ;; Package: and ;; Version: lines, which explicitly set the package name (and version).
I thought maybe it needed to be in some GNU variant of the tar format for Emacs to be able to read it, but when I just open the tar file directly in Emacs I get a directory listing and can read all the files, so that's not it.
You could try package-build-create-recipe It will need to be filled in, but if your headers are correct, with author, packages-required, version, etc.
Edit the recipe for your git. You'll be in recipe mode. Saving it puts it in .../elpa/recipes/ Building it with C-c C-c will make a package and install it in your elpa..
That might teach you what you need.
It will automatically pick up .el and .texi files. Not eld, but if you have some odd file, you can add the pattern to the recipe. I have an eld which is not in the list of automatic files.
We've all heard the tale of how to own a Nazi bar, i'm fairly sure.
I was drumming up interest in a local board game group i really enjoy, on my local queer Discord server. I got some interest.
Someone on the board games group's server asked "why did you make a point about us being queer friendly?" Not rudely, just curious.
"Because a lot of community groups are invisibly closed to us. We daren't reveal ourselves because of antipathy to queer folk. This place doesn't do that, at all. So i tell people it's safe, and they feel more comfy coming along."
Someone said, "Oh, so it's like the Nazi bar story, only good." I thought for a moment, and they're right. Sort of. Because unlike Nazis, queer folk aren't an invasive species. We don't push people out. Assholes just self-select choosing not to be associated with a bar that's queer-friendly.
Which is fine, system working as designed.
So...how do we tell the tale of the Queer-friendly bar, and the positive feedback loop that can occur when a business is explicitly friendly to queer folk?
Cause I think that could be a simple, true, and effective point about the great difference between choosing to be nice to Nazis instead of queer folk. Or vice versa, being nice to queers and bum-rushing the Nazis.
The Nazi Bar story is one we all know. Anyone got a proposal for how to do a good tale of how the bar got so lively? "Oh, I bought a drink for this gay fella once, and soon there were loads. But they're great guys, and if ya tell them no, they stop bugging ya, which is giving me weird feelings about how I treat women. And we get a lot fewer assholes, too."
Someone? Got a seed for the good story lurking here? I wanna make us some rippin' good properganda.
The problem is that there really isn't a thing as a cis/het male "community". One weird thing about being brought up as the "default" is that you actually have little to no sense of community with the other "defaults". It's just one of the many elements on how masculinity is so easily weaponised against both men, and the rest, except the men don't see how bad it is for them.
@NickSchwanck My mom's words more or less exactly. She worked in the hospitality sector, and the gays would be decent, well dressed and reliable. And not grope. Let's not forget that one. We are talking about early 70s.
@dzwiedziu I dunno. I can keep myself and my home clean and not behave like a boorish toddler and still be straight. Being gay is cool and all. It's just not for me.
I wonder if it might be helpful to you if I share a great lesson I had to learn a long time ago?
It is this: "If it ain't about you, don't make it about you."
It's a sort of multisemantic phrase: can be used to encourage various useful behaviours.
The one I want today is the one where if you read a generalisation about an identity you share, it's good praxis to examine yourself as to the asserted generalisation, and if it doesn't apply to you, then treat it exactly as though they were talking of someone else.
For example, if someone says, "aargh, white men can be so entitled!": if you feel you don't embody that generalisation, then don't include yourself as someone who's being talked about. They mean those white men who haven't had the self-growth to recognise and change their attitudes, not you.
So it never needs anyone to assert their variation from the generalisation. Not All Men is a deprecated trope for a reason. You can just be quietly proud that you've learnt this lesson already.
It's a lot more comfortable way to interact with folk who have less privilege, if you listen more than you need to talk.
Anyway, I wish you a good day, and thanks for being the ally you appear to be.
@dzwiedziu I take your point. But I was agreeing with the original poster by saying that "gay fellers" do a whole lot of stuff better than we cis/het types Not sure why you felt I needed that lesson. Cheers.
This has happened to me with @berniethewordsmith. I play DnD because he said here on Mastodon something like "I want to narrate one-shots, newbies and queer people welcome". I didn't know him much but there was a good vibe in his ad.
I'm mentioning him as he shares this interest about creating community, and I'll give your question a thought too.
ooh there was a post going round about just this at one point, something about how seeing visibly queer people on a server indicated it was also likely to be safe for women and just generally less toxic than some other places.
@Tattie It reminds me of when I'm picking out an Airbnb to stay at; I always look around the neighborhood in maps to see how many pride flags I can spot.
@Tattie Like the first time my (cis) wife and our (cis) female friend J-- joined me on a night out in ProseccoBar (a queer club):
They didn't want to leave and I had to "drag" them out at 04:30 in the morning
They told me that they never felt so safe in a club in their whole life, even leaving their drinks unattended all night without fear of anything happening.
Making spaces openly queer-friendly isn’t about exclusion, it’s about signaling safety. When people feel welcome, the community grows healthier, kinder, and more vibrant. It’s the opposite of the “Nazi bar” effect: acceptance attracts good people, and bigots filter themselves out.
I'm pretty sure every organized social group I participate with has some sort of proclamation of safety and inclusiveness of LGBTQIA2S+ and BIPOC folks.
For clarity sometimes there will also be a line about "If you cannot be inclusive of queer folks for any reason then you are not welcome here (because you're not a safe person to be around)"
I've built a lot of social power in a lot of very different spaces. When people see me in a room, things just... change? I tick and represent a lot of different groups, and just by speaking, people feel like they belong a bit more. Queer people get to be a little more queer. More women show up. More POCs take the stage.
The cycle compounds with more representation, and now we're even getting more Black people out to these product events. It's taken a few years to get here. Feels good to look at my community and see it reflect our city's demographics so much more.
it's kind of in the Nazi bar story in a way - the bartender kicks the Nazi out, and announcing that your group is queer friendly, that it will be no place for queerphobia, is letting folks know what your approach will be before the first Nazi shows up.
I knew that the 25hour hotel in Berlin had a sauna, included in the price. But I also know that saunas are "full monty"-naked in Germany, so I wasn't planning to go to the sauna at all. Mind you, this was the first time I was planning to stay in that hotel.
But when I arrived at the reception and saw the huuuuge progress pride flag with intersex hanging on the wall at the reception, ... 🥹🥹
Even my wife loves it there so much that we always stay there now, even though there are so many cheaper alternatives. And yes, we go to their sauna every time we stay there.
I go naked. In the hotel they don't care, but since about early 2024 I am happy with my boobs and since I also want to keep my penis (this is who I am after all), I can't be shy of my body; i.e., to say: whoever has a problem with my body has a problem, but it is not my problem.
Announcing your space to be explicitly queer friendly is also a good way to pre-emptively filter the assholes -- they'll be unable to keep from outing themselves by complaining about "Virtue signaling" and "identity politics" because in their perception any explicit indication that people who aren't like them are welcome is interpreted as an attack on themselves.
Put in a curb cut / dropped curb for wheelchair users, and soon parents with huggies, delivery people with trolleys, cyclists, folk with suitcases, and more will have an easier time, too.
Design for the most vulnerable, and everyone benefits.
there is a slice of life RPG called „Viva la queerbar“ which could help in shaping this story. Available in English from the publisher plotbunnygames.com/shop/viva-l…
I love the fact that the term is “queer friendly”, not just “queer tolerant” or something. All you people who are different from me: queer, poly, various religions (who also celebrate diversity), even Linux users, I absolutely love you all, not just despite our differences, but also BECAUSE of them. I also love people who are mostly like me! We are so much better as a whole for having many and varied ways of thinking and being.
no help with the story but another angle is it acts as an innoculation against nazis. They still show up but will, "ask questions" about the inclusivity statement and out themselves in short order.
To be clear the discussion doesn't end with the asking questions stage, as you noted those same questions can be and are asked in good faith as well.
you know, putting that queer-friendly tag is also a good way for warding off people you don't want on there. (As are all those tiny other things like putting your pronouns in profiles).
A barman I once knew would tell people he didn't like the look of that it was a gay bar. The first time I heard him say it I asked him about it as it wasn't a "gay bar" and his reasoning, based on years of experience, was the type of person that was put off by that statement were the type of people that he didn't want in his bar.
queer folks and furries are the keystone species of a healthy, welcoming community. If they're missing, it's a good sign it's going be toxic to anyone who joins.
local cider place was a good meetup spot for our queer, poly trivia team. Then the local STEM queers started meeting up there. Then we had the idea of hosting a monthly drag trivia and the brewery was very ok with that. One of the bartenders even offered to punch anyone who gave us trouble.
Queer community feels safe, starts hosting MORE events there, even things that aren’t LGBTQ+ themed. Brewery gets more business. Community keeps third space open. Win/win.
As long as it still feeds ink and writes reasonably, it could be good. Either it bends down and you got a free posting nib mod or it bends up and get you a free fude nib mod.
Bryan (he/him) 🇺🇸 🏳️🌈
in reply to Jonathan Lamothe • • •Jonathan Lamothe likes this.